Best of Unstuck

[Rugby]

Are we tweeting any versions of these?

[BestOf]

Thanks for posting that while I was slacking, ggoreo. Lots to catch up on so let’s jump right to it:

@AllTheCheese

Everybody knows Trump never uses the word “fire” when talking about ending a person’s employment. Remember his famous catch phrase on the Apprentice “you’re taken out.”

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@anon38180840

Regarding Joe Rogan, a few things:

1. Not all of the people who consume some of his content are part of this toxic crowd that is being spoken of. (If this is getting you triggered, make sure you read the rest of #1 and #2.) For example, he has on some experts in their field and does long interviews with them and gets way in depth. I was interested in eating broccoli sprouts for their numerous health benefits, and a woman called Dr. Rhonda Patrick is like THE broccoli sprouts expert. He had her on for a long interview and I watched some of it on YouTube looking for specific information. This is one of a few times I’ve stumbled onto his YouTube looking for content of a specific person who ended up having been his guest.

2. There’s definitely a toxicity about a lot of his content/audience. I had a friend who I cut out of my life in 2017 for a handful of reasons, but basically the dude was just a toxic macho bro guy who was really annoying to me and could never let an argument go. He also thought Trump was hilarious and would be harmless, I could have made a big bet with him that people would end up in cages but I couldn’t live with myself making money that way. Obviously I should have taken the bet and donated it to charity. Anyway, this guy LOVES Joe Rogan. I didn’t know much about him at the time, and my buddy really wanted to go see a comedy show of his in Philly and hang out, so I agreed. At this point in time, I basically only knew Rogan as the Fear Factor guy. There were definitely a number of cringe moments during the routine for me, and each time my buddy was cracking up and loved it. The biggest cringe thing was the crowd. As soon as we got near the theatre and were walking in, I knew I had fucked up and was in for an annoying evening. It was like allllllllllll dudes. Barely a couple there, no groups of women, and the jokes/comments you could overhear made me uncomfortable being part of that crowd.

3. Lots of these people will vote for a staunchly liberal candidate who doesn’t lecture them about the ills of their views on progressive social issues, then ignore it as that candidate does a bunch of great stuff on those issues along with the Medicare for All type stuff. Should we cater to them? Obviously not. Should we discourage their votes and support? I don’t know for sure, it’s a fair debate, but I think not. It’s complicated.

I mean, Rogan also said this, which is left of and stronger than what probably 95% of elected Dems in Congress would say about these issues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeKoh2zHg1o

Like, can you even imagine Joe Biden or Chuck Schumer or insert prominent eDem here saying of family separation, “If that doesn’t freak you the fuck out, you’re not a part of the team man, you’re missing it… What are we here for? We’re here for 100 years of whatever. If you want to spend a hundred years saying, ‘Hey she shouldn’t have fucking broke the law,’ I don’t want you on the team, you’re an asshole. I don’t give a fuck if you’re right or left, I don’t care if you’re religious, I don’t care if you’re an atheist, if that’s what you support, you’re an asshole and we don’t want you on our team.”

He goes on to basically say he’s glad AOC won even if he disagrees on issues with her, because she’s getting money out of politics and represents the people in her district, not the money.

Now I’m sure people can dig up a bunch of absolutely TERRIBLE things he has said or his guests have said without him pushing back, and I get that, and the left should have a discussion of this kind of stuff, but if we want to make big changes in the next decade, we probably need the support of these types of people.

3. Catfacemeowmers nailed it with this:

@catfacemeowmers

Like, what kind of people did everyone think those Main Line Republicans for Clinton would be?

I play poker with a handful of these dudes on the regular, like literally Trump voters who either fit that country club suburban Philly stereotype right down to the private golf course pullover or the Joe Rogan listener South Philly type.

The country club types are almost strictly voting on finances, so if we want to woo them with Joe Biden and promises not to raise their taxes, we can try, but at the end of the day, the teeny tiny difference between Biden’s tax plans and Trump’s tax plans may be a bridge too far and they may be in for four more years. This way we don’t get the Joe Rogan endorsement for the candidate, and we may feel morally superior in that regard, but if you think those voters aren’t spewing their toxic masculinity every time there aren’t women around, I don’t know what to tell you.

Some of the Rogan types will go for Bernie, because they really only care about 2-3 issues, and they tend to be stuff like getting money out of politics. I actually had a quiet conversation at the table with one of these types recently. He’s an Obama-Trump voter who I have considering Bernie if he wins the nomination. I had to ignore some comments during the back and forth about various issues that I really didn’t like ignoring, but by focusing on healthcare, getting money out of politics, honesty of the candidate, and just being a good person who’s not going to rip families apart, I was able to get through to him a bit. He viewed Trump as a necessary brick through the window even though he thinks he’s an asshole, and if his choice is to pick that same brick up and throw it again or to pick up a nicer brick and throw it, he’ll take the nicer brick, but he’s not voting for Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg.

4. Joe Rogan’s overall political views may surprise some people. Like, I’ve seen < 10 YouTube videos of this guy totaling < 60 minutes in my life, and I can tell you he’s for socialized healthcare and improving and further socializing education. He’s for less bombs. He’s not randomly endorsing Bernie… His views actually match up with the liberal wing of the Democratic party on a lot of issues.

If you ask me, the question is not whether we should seek or accept these endorsements, it’s whether we should promote them and celebrate them. There’s a moral question to it and a risk-reward question. Bernie may have alienated some supporters and sent the wrong message to them… But bottom line: if we start getting a significant percentage (maybe even like 10-15% counts) of votes from this archetype of voter over the next decade, 60 seats in the Senate are back in play and just dominating the political landscape is in play. If the Faustian bargain is to not lecture them about their bigotry and sexism, and then to placate them with policies we want to enact anyway (Medicare for All, getting money out of politics, progressive tax policy) while doing the right thing on all of those social issues… That doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me. Instead of giving them someone to blame for their problems, we fix their problems (which happen to be things we want to do anyway) and do the right thing on those social issues while hoping that their bigotry is reduced when their economic situation improves.

And, listen, if they don’t like it, they can vote for someone else next time and we should tell them to fuck off at that point. Nobody is saying we should be on bended knee on social policy for these voters.

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@JohnnyTruant

@Rivaldo, not sure if it will do the same for you but my very favorite baked pastime lately is watching these elite dancers do the same choreography. I can watch this shit on loop forever because each dancer is worth paying attention to individually. The best ones transcend interpretation of the song and almost seem like the song is interpreting their dance. The downside is I end up liking pretty shitty songs after a while. Try it.

https://youtu.be/ZA-AxIpt1GY

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@JohnnyTruant

I want to take a moment to say I am thinking of Mendoza and others who have already had much more direct impact and concerns than I do or should at this time. And without qualification, thanks for the support here all. It means a lot. I consider this place a group of friends.

ETA: even tho most of you have terribad music taste. (The scotch had done it’s work now.)

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@LikeClockwork

My wife forwarded this to me:

ALL THE WITNESSES: Ok we all agree. This is what happened.

REPUBLICANS: None of you were in the room!

BOLTON: raises hand Well I was in the…

REPUBLICANS: Who asked you?! Shut up! You’re a liberal pawn!

BOLTON: Um… I’m actually I’m a lifelong Republican and I was literally Trump’s national security advi…

REPUBLICANS: Shut your mustache! Somebody bring back the first national security advisor.

FLYNN: in orange jumpsuit Hey sorry guys I’m in jail lol.

REPUBLICANS: What? Why?

FLYNN: For lying to the FBI about the Russia investigation.

REPUBLICANS: Well what idiot told you to do that?!

FLYNN: The Pres…

REPUBLICANS: Shut up! No one believes either of you!

KELLY: raises hand I believe them. And I was Trump’s Chief of sta…

REPUBLICANS: Shut up! Let’s talk to the real chief of staff. Who is he?

MULVANEY: raises hand It me.

REPUBLICANS: Shit. Never mind.

PARNAS: raises hand I was also in the room. In fact, here’s a cell phone video of the President saying that…

REPUBLICANS: Wait what?! How in hell did you sneak a cell phone into a meeting with the President?

PARNAS: It was easy I just walked right in and…

REPUBLICANS: Shut up! You’re a criminal!

PARNAS: Correct. And I just walked right into…

TRUMP: I don’t know him.

PARNAS: And here’s 500 pictures of me with the President because we’re besties.

REPUBLICANS: Wait… What idiot introduced you to the President??

PARNAS: His personal lawyer.

REPUBLICANS: Cohen??

COHEN: also in orange jumpsuit Hey no sorry guys I’m in jail too.

REPUBLICANS: Why?

COHEN: For campaign finance violations.

REPUBLICANS: Who’s campaign?

COHEN: The Pres…

REPUBLICANS: Shut up!

PARNAS: It was Giuliani.

YOVANOVITCH: Giuliani! That’s the guy who had me fired from my job!

REPUBLICANS: Who are you??

YOVANOVITCH: I was the ambassador to Ukraine.

REPUBLICANS: Wait, you had her fired? Do you work for the government??

GIULIANI: Nope.

REPUBLICANS: Well who is the ambassador to the European Union??

SONDLAND: raises hand Me. I was also in the roo…

REPUBLICANS: F@$&!!!

PUTIN: rubs his bare chest

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@anon38180840

I make a deep run in a poker tournament and come home to this? Ugggggggh. Curse the 73o my KK got cracked by that made me tune back into this. I miss my sweet, sweet ignorance.

If the GOP won’t vote for witnesses, the Democratic response is simple. Wait for them to acquit, then immediately open a new impeachment inquiry and subpoena Bolton, Mulvaney, etc to testify. This is a raw power struggle, it’s time to get in the fucking game.

The GOP wants to acquit for process reasons? They want to say it’s the House’s job to get these witnesses to testify? Okay, that’s within their raw power to do. But the House gets to open a new impeachment inquiry, they can say the Senate never actually ruled on the charges themselves, they ruled on the process, and so we’re going to get these additional witnesses ourselves. Oh, it’s happening in the middle of an election year? Too bad, so sad, fuck you. You could have had the witnesses and wrapped it up in early February, you didn’t, now we’re doing it. Enjoy your second impeachment trial that much closer to the election, Senators Collins, Gardner, Ernst, Tillis, and McSally. Cry us a river.

You will hear from John Bolton and then you will vote again.

Instead they’ll talk about how important the 2020 elections are to save democracy, meanwhile Trump and the GOP will be colluding with anyone and everyone, deleting voters from the rolls if their addresses are in big cities that vote heavily Dem or their last names indicate that they are likely a minority, and perhaps straight up rigging the machines. They’ll be investigating the nominee, probably the VP too, and probably some Democratic challengers in the Senate. Illegal doesn’t matter, it’s going to be within the presidents proven rights to do anything necessary, regardless of the law, to ensure his or her own re-election because it’s in the national interest.

We’re going to get shellacked in 2020 if the rules of the game are that Trump can do whatever he wants, and Democrats will play fair and hope for the best.

And not only are the Democrats too stupid to get in the game, these clowns running the party are trying to push Joe Biden down our throats so that even if we win, after four years of Trump and after the GOP has explicitly said that the president has king-like powers to do whatever he or she wants, Joe will be like, “Nah, we’ve gotta get this back under control and make some bipartisan deals with Mitch McConnell, my dear friend in the Senate.”

We are all so so so so so so so so so so so so so so fucked.

original post

This one’s a first, I’m putting this post behind a spoiler because while it’s funny, it’s also in poor taste

@6ix

I’m just gonna put this out there:

Mat’s first girlfriend, like, when he was 14-15 or whatev, was raped and murdered by a serial killer.

In case anybody ever noticed and wondered why I had a strange sympathy and empathy for him.

@Jalfrezi

His father?

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@Lawnmower_Man

@Melkerson

Well, if your premises are wrong, that’s not a problem with the logic per se.

Also if the premises are incomplete or unknown, which is often the case due to the nature of the world (open) of analysis. There are people who are good at using deductive reasoning to reach conclusions in closed worlds like pure mathematics. Where they seem to comically fail is applying that approach to open worlds, namely the empirical one we live in. In fact, I’d go so far as to say it’s a trait of the people we’re talking about. Consider these two claims, the first being deductive and the second inductive:

(1) It has been shown under unobjectionable assumptions that artificial wage floors reduce total employment and result in suboptimal levels of economic output. Therefore, a new minimum wage law in Nevada will only hurt the workers it’s designed to protect.

(2) Research on minimum wage policy since the early 90’s provides little, if any, evidence that minimum wage laws, as implemented in practice, have any appreciable effect on employment or output levels. Therefore, it’s unlikely that a new minimum wage law in Nevada will have measurable deleterious effects on employment or output.

Focusing only on these argument styles as opposed to their strengths, how often do the people getting dunked on make arguments of type (2) as opposed to type (1)? How often do they express any doubt or sense of probabilism about their conclusions? I’d answer rarely to all of those questions.

I’m thinking specifically of that thread about tax cuts stimulating the economy. There is no evidence (in fact, there is anti-evidence) that tax cuts pay for themselves, and there were approximately zero economists on the IGM expert panel who believed that they would. But if I remember correctly, Mason’s argument was something like (a) he proved it on the back of a napkin and (b) some Trump slapdick had confirmed it by thinking about it. Of course, this is all built on the foolish core belief that government is inefficient, therefore any action it takes (i.e., taxing) throttles the economy by taking capital out of the hands of philosopher king job creators.

Now, mind you, he wasn’t arguing in good faith, but I maintain that the following observation holds up pretty well: the “it’s just simple logic” bros are hopelessly married to deduction, their core beliefs immutable and their ability to update and generalize from observable phenomena limited. It’s especially noticeable in libertarian/ancap/Austrian economists who eschew empiricism in favor of logic principles–and Ben Shapiro. Why that particular type of reasoning seems to be associated with so many ethnonationalist and phobic conservatives baffles me though.

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@beetlejuice

Hello, this is Americansky Guyovich from Iowa one. Mister Bernie Sanders has 10,000 votes but we give him zero delegate. Goodbye.

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@anon92450360

https://twitter.com/nikkihaley/status/1224863571768639489?s=21

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@EmpireMan

when he said “paid family leave” I’m pretty sure I saw Melania start to stand up

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@beetlejuice

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@champ

Just posting this because I can’t stop laughing

https://twitter.com/photowhitehouse/status/1225909811851780096?s=19

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@ChrisV

My meditation teacher likes to say that there are three ways to relate to the world, doing, feeling and thinking, and that people tend to have one that is their primary mode, one that’s a backup, and one that they suck at.

As things are at the moment, the Dems have people who relate to the world via thinking and the GOP have people who relate to the world via doing (think about the emphasis on Triumph of the Will, action for action’s sake, the military etc etc) and there’s a fight over people who relate to the world via feeling. “Feeling” here suggests warm and fuzzy Marianne vibes but that’s not necessarily the case. People who get super upset over abortion relate to the world via feeling. Ditto people who feel a great sense of injustice over immigrants supposedly getting special treatment over Real Americans or whatever. You really don’t want an alliance of Doing and Feeling types where they agree to tell the Thinkers to go fuck themselves, as that describes the Nazis and most totalitarian movements in history.

A lot of the bewilderment Dems have over the behaviour of non-Dems is a failure to recognise that they simply don’t approach the world the same way. This is also the reason we need good stories with clear villains to convince the undecided. Things which logically benefit them if they think about it aren’t necessarily going to make an impact.

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@ChrisV

@nunnehi

Uh, no, I knew exactly what was going to happen.

Quoting locked threads is a bit of a pain, all quotes from this thread. Context is that there were rumours back then (November) that Vindman was getting fired.

@nunnehi

I don’t get this, man. Have you looked at who Vindman is? For the GOP senators, he is their literal wet dream of what an American immigrant should be. If they aren’t behind him, they will be absolutely exposed for the frauds we already know they are. It will be pounded over and over how bad this is in hearings, and the GOP won’t be able to run away from it.

@nunnehi

There are lines even these people won’t cross, in my opinion.

@nunnehi

No, this is an inflection point. It’s the point where you can tell whether there is any chance on conviction. If this doesn’t move any or many of these GOP senators, nothing will.

@nunnehi

Then we live in an absolute dystopia, and all is completely lost. Dems lose in 2020 in a massive loss, and we get 20 terms of Trumps. The reality is this will make GOP senators radioactive in 2020 and 2022, and I wouldn’t want to be any of them if they try to stand by this shitbag if he actually did this. It’s like the people around here can’t see any trends that suggest all of this shit is mattering.

I am using this Vindman smear/firing as a litmus test of what the GOP senators are going to do on impeachment (I couldn’t care less about how it affects anyone else). This is something that absolutely should move the needle for them specifically because of how they feel about heroes/military people/war, etc., and if it does nothing, nothing, I mean nothing, will.

@nunnehi

Now think about what would happen if he gets away with this scandal. I think even these scumbag GOP senators are going to understand the gravity of this to their re-election chances by the time it gets to the trial (even if they acquit), and if the Vindman firing is real that will accelerate. I can’t see it any other way, sorry.

@nunnehi

Remember, my point is very simple. You’re placing this very particular (not) incident into the mindset of the GOP having not done anything about tons of things that should have moved the needle. I’m placing this into the prism of this guy is an American immigrant war hero with a purple heart who has risen to be a Director on the NSC to these 53 people (the same types of people who defend the traitor Flynn solely because he’s a General), and he is the first fact witness (was on the call) to the crimes Trump is being impeached for. How is it this hard to see a simple difference? If this had happened, and the GOP senators wouldn’t have had their needle moved on this, absolutely nothing ever will. I’m in complete disagreement that this wouldn’t have moved the needle of at least a half dozen GOP senators.

@nunnehi

You didn’t do what I asked. Vindman wears the uniform right now, and I’m quite sure you won’t even once hear Graham call him deep state.

Hey let’s check in on what Graham thinks about the Vindman firing

Lindsey Graham: Trump ousting of Vindman 'was justified' | Washington Examiner

Boy, this must be reflecting terribly on the GOP! Probably the public are up in arms and ready to throw these bums out of office!

@nunnehi

Come spike the football at the end of the impeachment process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M6samPEMpM

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@ChrisV

@smrk4

You seem to be very close to saying straight up that issues like transphobia and misogyny are niche concerns invented by educated liberals to satisfy their perpetual need to feel morally superior, which seems to imply that these issues aren’t worth caring about, or that nobody authentically cares about them, which is wrong.

I guess I’m saying two separate things:

1. The same people who whine about being personally attacked by Bernie Bros for not supporting M4A, or having the wrong foreign policy, or whatever, are constantly doing the same to other people for violations of liberal orthodoxy. There’s an example right there in your post where you refer to Rogan as a “sack of shit”; lib types aren’t going to call you out for that, but if I go call someone a “sack of shit” for not supporting M4A, it’ll be whining about uncivil Bernie Bros and their inability to be polite to us nice liberals.

2. The extent to which even mild transgressions against liberal orthodoxy are treated as sins of the most heinous kind is ridiculous. I’m talking about things like this:

Upon accepting the Rogan’s endorsement, Sanders faced backlash on social media from those offended by the podcast’s comments on transgender people — as well as the nation’s leading LGBTQ group, the Human Rights Campaign.

Alluding to those comments, HRC’s David said in a statement Rogan has “attacked transgender people, gay men, women, people of color and countless marginalized groups at every opportunity.”

“In 2019, 25 transgender people were killed because of the type of transphobia that Rogan stokes,” David added.

Bolded is frankly absolute bullshit and is an obviously offensive charge to level at Rogan. Rogan is guilty perhaps of insensitivity and of being hurtful to trans people; that’s it. The HRC endorsed Clinton over Sanders in 2016. To repeat, Clinton is close friends with Kissinger and voted for the Iraq War. Kissinger’s actions in Vietnam and the invasion of Iraq both resulted in tens or hundreds of thousands of people killed and maimed. If you don’t think Clinton is a more morally reprehensible person than Rogan you’re a moral imbecile.

The extent to which people are cast out from the liberal “club”, as the high priests of the movement attempted to do to Rogan, has nothing to do with actual real-world harm done and everything to do with maintaining the hegemony of an educated elite. Educated liberals are confident they don’t know anybody who would be mildly transphobic like Rogan, all their friends understand the niceties of discourse well enough not to do that. Therefore, he is beyond the pale, cast him and his fans into the fires of hell. They’re less confident that they don’t know anyone who supported the Iraq War, or who is OK with the staggering level of inequality which maintains the privilege of the Ivy League elite. So can’t we be a little polite about those things? Why do these Bernie Bros have to get so mad?

I’m not saying that transphobia and misogyny aren’t genuine issues, but I am saying that the oversized importance they take on in the liberal movement is not real concern for people, but rather a fight for power within the coalition. This is what that looks like:

https://twitter.com/neeratanden/status/1220837347542982656

This is purely and simply a resistance to reorganizing the liberal coalition in a way which includes people like Rogan and excludes people like Tanden. This reorganization is desirable because Tanden does vastly more damage to the advancement of a just and humane politics in America than Rogan ever has, or is even capable of doing. If you disagree with that sentence then we’re not on the same political team.

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@mosdef

@hobbes9324

Man, where was Warren the last 4-6 weeks.

I think the Warren from last night is the authentic Warren, and the watered down version that lost her toehold on the nomination was the over-consulted to version. One of the worst features of modern American politics (and there are a lot of bad features) is that there is a large consulting class that hovers around candidates looking to hoover up their money in exchange for terrible inside-the-beltway recommendations that largely amount to moving to the middle to where lobbyists can make more money. When people complain about lack of sincerity in federal politicians, a lot of it comes from this consulting class and their outsized influence. They polish up candidates to be appealing to insiders, which is almost diametrically opposed to what is appealing to the general public.

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@anon29622970

Bad sports analogy incoming: Liz has a fastball no one left in the D primary can match but she leaves a curveball hanging too often, while Bernie is out there just pitching a consistent knuckleball.

@hokie

Meanwhile Joe is tossing eephus pitches wondering why he’s getting shelled

@m_reed05

And we’re playing against the Astros.

original post

I’ll try not to wait a month before the next update.

[RiskyFlush]

There is so much good shit in here, it is going to take until the election to read it all. Thank you for collecting these.

Especially that cuse post on Joe Rogan. It’s in a megathread that runs at too fast a pace for even me, so I missed that one and probably a whole lot else.

[Chuckleslovakian]

bump?

[BestOf]

@BestOf

I’ll try not to wait a month before the next update.

This turned out to be a bit of a lie…

I’m going to try to work through the backlog of posts this week, starting with these 20:

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

I’m only now starting to realize how much MJ was ahead of his time. Dude wore the mask, covered his eyes, had his face replaced with antimicrobial plastics, and protected his hand with a sequined glove which is second only to tax cuts in reducing disease transmission.

Healthcare USA #1

These Canadian healthcare horror stories are up there with Canadian girlfriends in high school.

Democratic Primaries 2020 - Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Trump is only one layer of bad guys. He’s a cheap AI-cheating video game boss that incites you to pump quarters into the machine and distracts you from the fact that the developers are stealing your money and have been forever. First you’re mad that the AI cheats, but then you realize that the weak characters you’re forced to chose from were also created by the developers. Gamers are outraged and want Bernie Sanders as a playable character. Instead, the developers fold all of the shitty characte…

THE Super Tuesday Mega-Gameday Sweat

63 to 18 on black voters in VA. That has been polled for months and been nowhere near that. Endorsements from Pete and Klob who had combined 0.05% black voters there turned it guys!

THE Super Tuesday Mega-Gameday Sweat

All my life people have been telling me I need to vote for the lesser of two evils because SCOTUS, because down ballot races, because the alternatives are worse, etc. etc. Republicans currently control: The Presidency (and probably the next one too) 5/9 SCOTUS seats (probably soon to be 6) 7/13 Federal appeals courts 53/100 Senate seats 26 governorships 29 state legislatures In my lifetime, inequality has skyrocketed. Real wages have flatlined. Incarceration rates are shockingly higher than …

Democratic Primaries 2020 - Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Do you think that Bernie and Biden are similar, at all, politically? I don’t. And Pete’s policies were much closer to Biden’s than they were to Bernie’s. IMO pretending that Biden/Pete want the same things Bernie and the left does is harmful. It gives the impression to voters that the outcomes of a Biden presidency will be largely the same as the outcomes of a Bernie presidency. That’s why you get people voting based on personality and how loud someone is and whether they think their neighbor…

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

make it into two million gallons of homeopathic hand sanitizer

Thanks Awval

It’s Schroedinger’s Virus. You’re both infected and not infected until you test for it. Then you’re infected.

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump, Episode VII: We Are All Going To Die, Thanks Obama!

Democrat hoax to hurt your favorite president Fake News Media overhyping threat to hurt Trump Seasonal Flu is way worse. THINK ABOUT THAT! “Foreign Virus” is gonna kill you, but I’ll stop if by keeping dirty Euros out. What about Obama killing thousands with Swine Flu? It’s a National Emergency! We will take care of everybody. Here’s some CEOs who love me. Stock market, please clap! Pray to God for divine intervention because that’s our only hope. All in the span of a week.

Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Horror movies where all the characters do incredibly dumb shit to put themselves in danger aren’t unrealistic after all.

@clovis8

link to post

SARS-CoV-2: Electric Superflu

I’m in Chicago, in my bedroom, you’re in Australia, a place I’m not sure really exists. We’re talking! Why would I need to leave the house?

Donations

The most recent donation has been received. Thanks? [image] My opening this up in front of my wife initiated a fun conversation about the fact that I was a treasurer for an online forum, and that apparently meant that people could send me random gift cards that: obligated me to donate the equivalent amount of cash to the site. eat $25 worth of skyline chili I will of course provide a trip report of my consuming this chili, but I’m not sure when that’s going to be. I’ll just say it’s not…

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/sars-cov-2-electric-superflu/1265/3603

SARS-CoV-2: Electric Superflu

It is absolutely maddening that this virus outbreak has been known since early December, recognized as a serious problem since January, been a localized health disaster since early February, and a full blown global pandemic for a month, and we still don’t know a god damn thing about anything. The reliability of information is equivalent to what we see in the first couple hours after some natural disaster or terrorist attack. Does it spread by contact or aerosol or spit or something else or all …

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump, Episode VII: We Are All Going To Die, Thanks Obama!

You have to humiliate and attack the ego until it gets to complete meltdown. Direct personal challenges. “Mr. President, can you explain why the stock market has lost over a third of its value on your watch while Barack Obama–some say the best president of all time–was able to triple the stock market. Is it because you are incompetent with respect to virology and disaster management or is it simply because Obama had a much larger penis?”

SARS-CoV-2: Electric Superflu

This pandemic that’s going on right now should, at the very least, destroy the myth of the smart/benevolent billionaire. We knew what was coming in mid February and they did nothing. They like to hide behind the “I’m going to donate 99% of my fortune to help humanity” excuse, but like, if there was every a time to use your fortune to help humanity, it was six weeks ago.

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump, Episode VII: We Are All Going To Die, Thanks Obama!

Can’t watch. Best Buy is closed. No place to get a new TV. I can use the same brick over and over however.

SARS-CoV-2: Electric Superflu

Other than my Wheel of Fortune story a bit ago I’ve largely avoided engaging in this thread, and not because I don’t appreciate all the effort that has gone into making this one of the best resources for COVID on the internet. This whole saga has just really drilled home the impossibility of achieving leftist policy in this country during my lifetime, and I am struggling with that. I’d like to rant a bit. It should be crystal clear to everyone in this nation the types of policies that could mit…

@suzzer99

link to post

[BestOf]

Let’s take a look at 20 more top notch posts from the Unstuck community:

SARS-CoV-2: Electric Superflu

We need an Unstuck Likes Stimulus package I’m almost out. Stop posting so well

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/things-to-do-while-on-lockdown-for-coronavirus/1242/222

@von_Internet

link

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump, Episode VII: We Are All Going To Die, Thanks Obama!

I find it ironic that Trump himself is the hydroxychloroquine of our country’s star-culture. Unproven as an effective public servant, yet many people bought into the hype and injected him into their veins. Others could tell from the start that he was far from the cure for America’s ills. So it makes perfect sense that he’s plugging this unproven drug. Snake oil salesmen gonna sell snake oil.

***Biggest Assholes Alive Draft Thread***

Pick #2: Moscow Mitch McConnell [image] Chapter 1: Before the Senate Every monster has a beginning. Addison Mitchell McConnell Jr. was born on Feb 20, 1942 to Addison Mitchell McConnell, Sr. and Julia Odene “Dean” McConnell in Sheffield, Alabama. Remarkably I was able to find footage of his birth https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ypxjm (looks like the NSFW parts were cut) In 1944, at the age of two, Addison Jr’s upper left leg was paralyzed by a polio attack. The treatment potentially …

@Nicholasp27

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Just kidding, this is an easy decision for Heritage to let the masses die.

As Patrick Henry famously said: “Give me liberty or give me the death of every American”
link

Brother to join the forum

Sure, why can’t I pay a tax to make covid-19 go away? I mean. If the govt can change the earths climate why not eliminate a virus? Is the govt here to help us?

COVID-19: memes and goofs thread

News at 12…Pigeon shat on pony

^This one’s a chain of posts, follow it and scroll up

COVID-19 (2): Turns out it's going to be pretty bad actually

My dad caught tuberculosis when I was a kid, he came out okay, mom and I tested negative. Boy, the tuberculosis wiki page is some nightmare fuel, right? Official WHO global health emergency since 1993. Extensively drug-resistant tuberculosis seems like something we should be worried about? I knew TB was still around from personal experience and my morbid interest in these kinds of things, but you could be forgiven for thinking that TB was only a problem back in the cowboy days. But yeah, a lo…

@skydiver8

link

@seities

link

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/why-did-this-forum-split-from-2-2/1035/642

Brother to join the forum

Learn how to spell wildabeast for one, and 2ndly, don’t be a rivaldo.

Brother to join the forum

Thought so

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/lc-thread-for-2020-hibernation-season/1332/583

@DodgerIrish

COVID-19 (2): Turns out it's going to be pretty bad actually

Maybe if the migration of 22 doesn’t work out, Mason can open a new forum called 6 + 7 + 5 = 19

Democratic Primaries 2020 - With a whimper

Right, but one of the indisputable truths that the Trump era has illuminated is that America and Americans are largely defined by their nakedly transparent contradictions. Desperately wanting socialist policies while being violently opposed to socialism isn’t just possible, it’s quintessentially American.

COVID-19 (2): Turns out it's going to be pretty bad actually

America just seems to have an unmatched number of people who are fully committed to living in a fantasy world and their entire project in life is to attempt to prevent the intrusion of any ideas which might necessitate any mental discomfort or introspection at all. This runs through the culture imo. Germans have to open history books and read about how 80 years ago they were the worst country in the world. One of the founding myths of Australia is Gallipoli, which is all about how Australia was…

COVID-19 (2): Turns out it's going to be pretty bad actually

The GOP is all-in on Trump. There’s no way they can repudiate him and survive, so they have to go in the direction he leads. If you had to make decisions with the constraint that you can’t contradict Trump, what would you do? Republicans are also working off of the idea that the economy needs to be back to normal by November for them to win and treating all losing scenarios as catastrophic. They need to gamble to have a shot at winning. And the longer you lock things down, the more justific…

[BestOf]

These next 20 finally get us caught up to June at least:

Democratic Primaries 2020 - With a whimper

[Life of Brian - The People's Front of Judea]

COVID-19: memes and goofs thread

The last four months alone could probably fill out a whole new version of We Didn’t Start the Fire. 2020, Auld Lang Syne, Soleimani droned and died, Iran let some missiles fly, fighter jets in the sky. Burnt koalas, Senate trial, we were all sweet summer childs, Donald Trump showman speech, Rush Limbaugh in the seats, Kobe helicopter crash, Brexit happens at long last, Iowa Dems cannot count, Bernie’s chances start to mount, Impeachment acquittal day, Sondland, Vindman blown away, Donald…

Podcast Thread

Right, the problem with the left broadly is that they are good at thinking but not very good at actually doing stuff. The right, who typically have people in their ranks like businessmen, entrepreneurs, managers, tradesmen, military types etc etc, are good at doing stuff, less good at thinking. The battle with the left is always actually getting things accomplished, which is why I think questions like “how will this help people get healthcare” are a good litmus test as to whether things matter…

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/the-inso0-ama-now-featuring-its-just-a-flu/1415/171

Trump's America

Hmmm… https://twitter.com/propublica/status/1258904742769688585?s=20 Great work holding weird nighttime parades and also arresting black people who congregate and ignoring MAGA chuds brandishing assault rifles outside the home of the director of public health. I’ll be sure to screw in a blue lightbulb and make my apartment look like a shot from a Panos Cosmatos film to honor these brave first responder heroes while our state’s nurses are sleeping in closets and breakrooms inbetween shifts intu…

^another one where you should click and scroll up

Film scores are just laugh tracks for people who went to college

Winger begs to differ: Yey I saw sparks fly, from the corner of my eye When I turned, it was love at first sight I said please excuse me, I didn’t catch your name Oh it’d be a shame not to see you again And just when I thought she was comin’ to my door She whispered sweet and brought me to the floor, she said I’m only seventeen (seventeen) But I’ll show you love like you’ve never seen She’s only seventeen (seventeen) Daddy says she’s too young, but she’s old enough for me […

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump, Episode VII: We Are All Going To Die, Thanks Obama!

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1258838201818476544

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump, Episode VII: We Are All Going To Die, Thanks Obama!

It’s only weird if you are incapable of holding two obviously contradictory beliefs at the same time. One of the failures of argumentation with Trumpkins is the instinct to present them with normally appropriate arguments they don’t give a fuck about: Hey, that’s a self contradiction! Guess what, they don’t care. They are willing to hold opposing views A and B if both A and B can be interpreted as owning the libs. Hey, that’s a double standard! Guess what, they don’t care. They LOVE d…

Democratic Primaries 2020 - With a whimper

To be more serious for a minute, I actually don’t doubt that you are engaging in American politics at least as seriously as the vast majority of Americans, I just find it deeply alarming. There is a deep political rot spreading, not just in the U.S., and I believe that at least some of its origin can be found in the particular mix of cynicism and naivete unmoored from any practical reality that lets you, in Ireland, get drawn into debates about U.S. health insurance and income taxes with the sa…

Democratic Primaries 2020 - With a whimper

tldr, but I think the political rot in the world is that, while it’s ok for rich educated people to be cynical, it’s deeply alarming when you see it from your inferiors.

COVID-19: Chapter 4 - OPEN FOR BUSINESS

The first wave hasn’t even crested yet, and we’re reopening lol… What a stupid country. Our opponent exposed his hand on the turn for no apparent reason, he has quads, we have an open ended straight flush draw. There’s like 1,000 in the pot and we just jammed a million in there and said, “I have a good feeling about this!” Our opponent is confused, re-checking the board a few times. We’re like “Wanna raise the stakes? Hey honey, go get the deed to the house!”

@RiskyFlush

@realDonaldTrump

Strong on Crime, the Border and Agriculture — and he loves our Vets!

Foghorn Trumphorn

link

@Riverman

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263937751872868353?s=21

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1263935118697062401?s=21
link

Speculating about the origin of the coronavirus

This is begging the question. If I ask how you know he’s cheating, you can’t say it’s because his results were very different after cheating. That requires me to assume the conclusion. Impossible? It seems like the only way a winrate could literally be impossible is if he won more than was ever in play or something. Why couldn’t he play perfect merely from guessing correctly a bunch of times in a row? It’s obviously not impossible. You are merely claiming it cannot be done and I don’t reall…

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

I have this exercise I go through when I don’t understand others’ behavior. First, I assume that I am not inherently better than them. Then, I consider what life experiences it might take for me to act similarly. Then, I think deeply about the life experiences that these people have had. I have lived my life up to this point trying to make other people feel safe. I have never been in a fight, threatened violence, or shoplifted. But given a lifetime of cumulative disadvantage, racial/social inju…

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

@BestOf

^This one has a tweet that I can’t make embed here.

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

Yeah I don’t recall Ferguson being anywhere near this level, and I paid close attention. I don’t recall people trying to attack/kill protesters until Charlottesville, and now we’re seeing it in numerous cities at once across the country, and we’re seeing actually destructive left-wing protests in numerous cities at once across the country. I think that’s part of it, and I think you had a lot of accumulated anger over the years, but I think it goes beyond that… In just the last couple of month…

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/why-did-this-forum-split-from-2-2/1035/833

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

My head tells me Biden wins in an absolute massacre. My heart refuses to believe it.

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

Please don’t bet on it

[BestOf]

These posts get us all caught up, and today we have something special: the first post to be tagged by multiple people.

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/police-murder-george-floyd-then-riot-nationwide-links-to-streams-in-op/1904/3952

@RiskyFlush

@RiskyFlush

I had to zoom in to make sure those weren’t big macs

ENHANCE

link

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

Maybe if you get a twister you’ll see some flying pigs.

@LFS

@Nozetradamus

And do what?

link

Abolishing the Police

Of course that’s your contention. You’re a first year grad student. You just got finished reading some Marxian historian, Pete Garrison probably, you’re gonna be convinced of that until next month when you get to James Lemon, then you’re gonna be talking about how the economies of Virginia and Pennsylvania were entrepreneurial and capitalist way back in 1740. That’s gonna last until next year, you’re gonna be in here regurgitating Gordon Wood, talkin’ about, you know, the Pre-revolutionary utopi…

Police Murder George Floyd Then Riot Nationwide (Links to Streams in OP)

I think the major impact of trump is everybody’s brain cracked open but in a different way. MAGAs (the police, the GOP etc) realised they could let fly and no one was really going to do anything about it. That we already hate them so they might as well go nitro. Lefties brains broke and they finally seem to have realised and comprehended (like the maga peeps) that there are no rules, there’s no such thing as objectivity in a political sense, you can’t appeal to the refs. That morality is enough …

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/trumps-america/87/1454

On the morality of doxxing shitty cops using violence against innocent civilians

Hmm are they though? I’m legit not sure if this is true! At least not in the context under discussion here. Back in the old days, after I got out of the Army, I worked for a while at the phone company GTE, one of the baby Bells. I’ll let y’all look that up, it’s an outdated term and I won’t bore you with the details. Anyway, the company used to publish this thing called a “phone book,” which I guess you young folk nowadays might accurately call a “doxxing book,” because it had the name and add…

@seities

link

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

We’re down to about 15 racists and pretty soon it’ll be zero

LC Thread 2020: What the PUNK? ROCK.

This is probably the perfect example for lapka. Well done. I don’t know what a Bernoulli equation even is so I couldn’t do this example properly. @zarapochka : We don’t have to feel guilty about our privilege, merely acknowledge it and try to do what we can (even when a bit inconvenient) to try to right it. I, for example, pretty blatantly favor black owned trucking companies. I give them better work (which means better pay) than they deserve if I judged them by my usual standards in a vacuum. …

@RiskyFlush

link

And now, the first post tagged by multiple posters, made of course by none other than…
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1273634152433188865

Link to the post if you haven’t already blessed it with a like.

[RiskyFlush]

@BestOf

Link to the post if you haven’t already blessed it with a like.

LOL that Trump post is going to soon be the most-liked post on UP

[Marksman]

Really amazing to read through. I spend a lot of time reading these forums but I probably had not seen 65% of those posts before.

[Marksman]

@BestOf

[BestOf]

Let’s take a look at some more of our best posting:

link

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

fyp

Trump campaign officials said the risk was negligable, noting that most infected staffers “had only been handing out masks” and that attendees who took one “aren’t wearing them anyways.”

link

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

THE INVISIBLE MAJORITY!!!

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

Why are so many people in that arena dressed up like blue chairs?

https://mobile.twitter.com/janemarielynch/status/1274512067119116289
link to post

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

So I was planning on posting this in here because I thought after the hate rally all of you would need something heartwarming to read. But then I went golfing with my daughter and came back to see that the hate rally had less people than my daughter’s last elementary school recital. But I’m going to post this here anyways because even on a day when Trump gets humiliated, it’s still nice to know there’s good in the world… So, like most places, my town (Olympia, WA) cancelled our annual pride par…

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/why-did-this-forum-split-from-2-2/1035/1034

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

https://www.captiongenerator.com/1888712/Trump-reacts-to-2020-election-results enjoy!

COVID-19: Chapter 4 - OPEN FOR BUSINESS

Maybe for some reason having herpes makes you resistant to COVID-19?

Leftist and Scottish Memes for Seizing the Means

They were panicked and sweaty, feeling like the end was near. Like a brave action hero, with his damsel in distress in tow, they kneel down by the front door to catch their breath. “You ever fire one of these before” he said in a gravelly tone as he removed the magazine to confirm a ready bullet, reinserts it, then chambers a round. “No” she says with a panting breath. He gently holds out the gun. “Point it at the bad guys and pull this trigger. Now stay with me if you want to live.” He pok…

The Presidency of Donald J. Trump: retweets WHITE POWER, condemns Black Lives Matter, regrets criminal justice reform

A nice feature of Trumpism is that his insane base doesn’t like anyone else. Now that they’ve mainlined the pure opium racism they’re not going to settle for the dog whistle version from Tom Cotton or whoever. Anyone as insane as Trump will be legitimately unelectable and anyone sane won’t get the base to the degree Trump does. Assuming they lose in 2020 (big if, obviously), the GOP is completely fucked moving forward, especially given demographics. They know this, which has me terrified of the …

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/history-of-the-world-from-a-gambler-s-perspective-a-scholarly-discussion/1998/734

This thread is about sex

I met an Aussie couple once who had tried to climb Triglav, in Slovenia, without any gear. The guy didn’t even have sports shoes, he was climbing in casual dress shoes. They got caught in a storm halfway up and went into a shelter hut, where everyone else was heavily geared up. Everyone at the hut stares at these terminally underequipped idiots. Eventually someone comes up and says “let me guess, are you Australian?” My point is, very racist imo.

COVID-19: Chapter 5 - BACK TO SCHOOL

Virus isn’t real Virus is real, but not very widespread Virus is real and widespread, but not very dangerous Virus is real, widespread, and dangerous; but is totally out of control now so we might as well just accept it

Describe your favorite movie as boringly as possible

Wrath of Khan? ETA: Meeeeeebbbbbbbbbbbbbb!

History Of The World From A Gambler’s Perspective: A Scholarly Discussion

Having finished, this is how I might write a review of the book. Overall, the idea for History of the World from a Gambler’s Perspective isn’t awful, but the execution is horrible. Most of the chapters begin with a lengthy restatement cribbed from Wikipedia. The use of quoted sections from Wikipedia seem like they were intended to lend gravitas, but they are completely random. These historical sections come across as written by an incompetent high school student who is too lazy to paraphrase…

Led Zeppelin Tournament Bracket

And please no one tell Clovis this thread is a thing, god help us if he figures out all of Zepplin’s songs are about 15-year-old girls, hobbits, and 15-year-old-girl hobbits.

[BestOf]

It’s been about 6 weeks, let’s see what we may have missed:

@hokie

This reopen-the-school shit is like a perfect microcosm of why and how this entire thing has been so fucked up. There is a legitimate need to get kids back to social environments, yes–I am sure that this is delaying their growth in some way. But the pressure isn’t due to fucking Republicans caring about kids, that’s all bad-faith bullshit. (Just look at how they treat school funding.) This pressure is because the leadership of this country refuses to pay people money to protect themselves because it is bought and paid for by giant corporations that rely on the labor of the parents of these children as their source of profit. Like so many fucking issues in this pandemic, this would be solved by just giving people some fucking money and increasing the availability of testing/tracing. But instead the GOP has distracted millions of Americans with the shiny object of “MUH RIIIIGHTS” and here we fucking are, pretending that we’re reopening schools for the good of the children when really we’re just going to worsen the pandemic, all so that the parents can return to their bullshit jobs without the hassle of dealing with their asshole kids all day.

@Trolly

@d2_e4

Who is this guy?

He was an extremely annoying troll poster who couldn’t be banned because he had nudes of Mason.

@d2_e4

Was he any good at debating?

No. But can I just say this: a thing I’ve learned in my many sojourns on the internet is how completely useless “debate me, bro” shit is. I just don’t care how good someone is at debating. It’s a quality we glorify because rhetoric was one of the classical liberal arts back in the days of ancient Greece, but the reality is that it’s just so easy for earnest people with good opinions to get snowed by bad-faith sophists with endless layers of bullshit. Just look at this entire cottage industry of Ben Shapiro-style “DEBATE ME!” bros, do you notice how they always seem to have completely toxic views?

To explain all of this is maybe one of the greatest things ever written on the internet. I will recite a passage:

## Libertarianism Makes You Stupid

The Fallacious Proof:

 * Step 1: -1/1 = 1/-1 
 * Step 2: Taking the square root of both sides: sqrt(-1/1) = sqrt(1/-1)
 * Step 3: Simplifying: sqrt(-1) / sqrt(1) = sqrt(1) / sqrt(-1)  
 * Step 4: In other words, i/1 = 1/i.
 * Step 5: Therefore, i / 2 = 1 / (2i),
 * Step 6: i/2 + 3/(2i) = 1/(2i) + 3/(2i),
 * Step 7: i (i/2 + 3/(2i) ) = i ( 1/(2i) + 3/(2i) ),
 * Step 8: (i^2)/2 + (3i)/2i = i/(2i) + (3i)/(2i),
 * Step 9: (-1)/2 + 3/2 = 1/2 + 3/2,
 * Step 10: and this shows that 1=2. 

Even more advanced! Complex numbers have been used for centuries, who can doubt the soundness of their principles?

This is why, as a pure matter of tactics, it’s dangerous to get into preaching contests with Libertarians. Sometimes it’s better to say “1=2 is utter nonsense, and if you believe that from the Libertarian Mathematics, you’ve had your mind rotted”. Now, this does leave an opening for a reply “Nyah, nyah, you didn’t go over every line of that proof and find the error, you have to do that, or you’re close-minded”. But someone could do more good at times by pointing out that there are people walking around spouting the political equivalent of “1=2” than getting into an involved discussion about part x of step y. This is where Libertarianism Makes You Stupid, the grip of subtly flawed logic can overwhelm everything else.

Your boy domer was a master at the “nyah, nyah, you didn’t go over every line of that proof” school of argument. At the end of the day, he was still a fringe weirdo who would get laughed out of climate scientists. I’m old, I’m just done with engaging in clever 1=2 debates with sophist ghouls.

ikestoys was great at “debating.” He would also leap to the defense of George Zimmerman and Brock Turner. Sometimes you just have to understand that 1 doesn’t equal 2.

@PocketChads

I once saw someone say that if all concentration camps were of equal size and “effectiveness”, and Candidate A would build 10 camps while Candidate B would build 9, obviously you should vote for Candidate B.

This is a hypothetical so extremely simplified as to completely miss anyone’s point, and possibly be harmful, and yet still it is several levels above the vast majority of the General Election discourse on this forum.

One reason it misses the mark is that nothing is of equal scale or effectiveness. For example, the 9-camp administration could obviously be much more competent. The 9-camp administration could naturally encounter far less resistance from courts, legislatures, journalists, and even protestors.

If there was an ever-growing, organic, street-level resistance movement under the 10-camp administration, someone tasked solely with the goal of designing a way to fracture and dissolve that movement might very well say the best way to do so is have the 9-camp administration come into power so that the movement fights with itself over whether to go hard against the new administration or even fights over whether to challenge it at all.

Obviously it is possible for all this (and much more; there’s infinite other things to consider) to be weighed calmly and rationally and still come to the conclusion that the least amount of harm comes from electing the 9-camp administration. But I don’t think that’s what ANYONE is doing. They have started with the conclusion that feels comfortable, and they will get extremely angry when that conclusion is challenged. Not that anyone on this forum, or the internet in general, with fleetingly few exceptions, is doing anything close to a good job at laying out the counter arguments.

Still, whenever anyone uses the word “purity” I have to laugh to keep from crying. Nobody, not one flesh and blood human, nobody but the strawmen, is saying, “well there are some areas the candidate and I don’t agree.” They’re saying the candidate does active harm, and promises to do even more active harm! They’re saying the total amount of harm between the candidates is either similar or too impossible to prognosticate between.

It kills me that people have reduced this to, “well obviously the only possibility is that people are being vindictive about the primaries, and are willing to harm others to make a point.” Everyone I know that I’ve ever talked to about their decision(s) to abstain from voting or to write in a candidate is someone from a group or groups who are right at the very front of the line for receiving both direct and indirect violence from the state.

But of course all of this discussion is such a monumental waste of time as far as the election itself goes, given how close to zero your individual vote is to make an impact on whether we get Candidate A or Candidate B. The discussion is useful, however, if people are willing to listen (and to speak) with open minds and open hearts and realize exactly how the foundational depths of state depravity can make an extremely politically educated (and extremely oppressed) person choose not to participate in an illegitimate election. Like if we could just get to that point where some of you could say, “OK, I think I understand their position now.” Even if you follow that up with, “but I still think it’s best to vote for this candidate, and that’s what I’ll do,” it would be a monumental shift in your understanding of the state and its power structure and its history that I think would only do good things going forward.

I’m not sure how we get to that point. Contrary to a lot of people’s beliefs, this kind of forum debating isn’t the most conducive way to learn these things. It would have to look more like study groups, I think, where we start off not even arguing. Because right now we have a situation where someone says one paragraph they’ve formulated from 100 books read and 10 years of street-level organizing experience and talking to people who live on the streets, and 12 people come back instantly with very emotional stances on why that paragraph was all wrong.

@SwankyWilder

In a similar vein I had my kids convinced the phrase “Hot as a haddock” was a thing, which lead my daughter using it in front of her friends when she went to University - insisting it was a thing, googling it only to find there was only one matching entry and it was her brother asking if the phrase hot as a haddock was a thing

@otatop

Let them deduct cake.

@JohnnyTruant

Aren’t they just regular dolls if nobody is gonna fuck em?

@Mendoza

https://wokeglobaltimes.com/2020/07/23/bad-china-takes-a-typology/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

This is brilliant

@6ix

@alex

When you are a dick to someone, they are less likely to join your side. That’s why you have to post that meme over and over again. To deflect from the fact that your bullshit turns people away.

That’s literally the first time I’ve ever posted that meme.

That’s why I performatively typed “where’s the fucking macro” as I needed to actually go and find it.

I understand if that part was opaque but it doesn’t change the fact that you just made some shit up.

I also never posted a snake emoji but I did post this:

That and a number of other posts have been my ace in the hole that’s made me well aware that you people have had no desire to have a real conversation with a real person, rather, you just want to vent at a makeshift avatar of equal parts real things and strawmen.

But it’s never too late!

And, like, I get it. Most of you Lads had Liz-1 and Bernie-2 and now neither of them made it. It was so close; after looking like it’d be a Liz v Bernie contest everything went sideways in a matter of weeks. Then a fucking pandemic happened. Calling it frustrating and disappointing doesn’t really do it justice. Being alive can be unbearable and inside all of us is a deep well of pain and sadness.

---

---

Fuck, wasn’t planning on ending a post like that but there it is.

@Trolly

Not to disrespect George Orwell, but the man laid it on pretty thick in 1984. It’s not in any way subtle. Like, teenagers can and do read 1984 and understand what he was getting at with doublespeak and the Ministry of Truth and whatnot. It’s a great and prescient book on many levels, don’t get me wrong, but it’s also not hard to understand.

A thing that broke me after 9/11 was just how blatant and stupid the fascism was. They weren’t even trying. They actually fucking called it “The Patriot Act” when they created a bill to enhance police state surveillance. The Patriot Act. Like, Orwell would have blushed at that, it’s too stupid and on the nose for 1984. Teenagers reading 1984 would have rolled their eyes if he’d written about a Patriot Act that expanded domestic surveillance. America is dumber than your average 1984-reading teenager, that’s where we’re at now.

@Devil

https://twitter.com/thejuicemedia/status/1288989754210557960?s=09

https://twitter.com/thejuicemedia/status/1288989754210557960

@MichaelDavis

Libertarian here. It’s just because naturally they have lower IQs and aren’t as good at logic. I fully support them having equal rights in spite of this.

@Nononocantsleep

I say this with a genuine combination of love and seriousness, because I deeply appreciate all of the fantastic people on UP.

There are a lot of smart people on this forum, and smart people (especially poker players, maybe) are unusually adept at looking for and finding threats in the world around us. That said, I think we need to be careful about becoming an echo chamber for acute depressive thoughts in response to each of Trump’s new weekly horrors.

The dude is a monster, surrounded by monsters, and enabled by monsters. I’m scared too, and my family is in the process of updating our passports. But none of us UPers are made safer by driving each other toward despondent helplessness, and the game isn’t over yet.

Worst case scenario, we can all pile in a solar-powered bus caravan and get some breathless coverage from Tucker Carlson before we bluff our way (right? who else could do it better?) across the Canadian border.

Stay strong, team. We’re in this together.

@anon10396289

@suzzers_ghost

@feedthabeast

Part of me wants to dump my entire portfolio and go 50/50 Apple and Tesla. I’d never do it but we can all but guarantee once they split people will be able to “afford” them now because they’re “cheap” so there will be a huge pump.

It’s like I’ve been transported to the Motley Fool boards circa 1999.

@MrWookie

@MysteryConman

(my pony got stuck watching an ad that it couldn’t skip)

From IRL discussions that I’ve had with people on the right(everything from RWNJs<---->bog standard conservatives) I have discovered an essential part of the desire to share their views via youtube.

It’s important to understand that all people make decisions and come to conclusions based upon emotion, the logical justifications are tacked on post hoc.

They watched a youtube that made them feel smart because the person in the video confidently delivered non-rebutted points that confirmed their “gut” instincts. It is not the concepts or arguments contained within the videos, it is the feeling that they had while watching the video that they are trying to share with you.

The video didn’t steelman their opponents’ arguments or critically examine the positive claims that were being made. So, when they are confronted with disagreement, they feel disoriented because the video that made them feel good about their beliefs didn’t convince them of those beliefs; it only reinforced what they already felt.

@beetlejuice

speech should have started with him finishing chopping that wood, shirtless. sweat glistening over his muscular torso. he wipes himself with a towel, puts on a shirt, then jacket, then tie, in silence. walks up into the camera frame and says “eat the rich” and the speech ends immediately

@dlk9s

The RNC lineup is like The Really Rottens team at the Laff-A-Lympics.

@smrk4

Biden is doing so well tonight I award him one judgment-free hair sniff of a stranger of his choosing

@Riverman

Steve Scalise: Hi, I’m so fucking stupid I got shot and almost died and still oppose all gun control. Good night.

@MattyLice

Cliffs on tonight? 5 words or less will do.

@MichaelDavis

Person Man Woman Camera TV

@Smacc_25

https://mobile.twitter.com/DBF_NYC/status/1298099551820230660

https://mobile.twitter.com/DBF_NYC/status/1298099551820230660

@pvn

Donald is at home watching and is like hey, her name is trump too

@poopypants

I heard that David Sklansky was so brilliant at math that he could’ve gotten a Field’s medal but simply didn’t consider it worth his time. Instead he focused his efforts on 538 riddles, SAT math competitions, and thought experiments in an online poker forum. He also came up with the Fundamental Theorem of Poker. A theorem which is so difficult to prove that he figured no one else could possibly understand the proof so he omitted it altogether.

@MysteryConman

@Cactus

The Democratic party is a powerful force in keeping minorities oppressed also. They pay nothing more than lip service to inequality in order to dupe liberals into thinking words mean more than actionable policies.

I take a Chomsky-type view that the Democratic party are the center-right faction(GOP is the far right faction) of the Capitalist party that has essentially had one-party rule of American government. So, I agree that the Dem party tends to be a lot of talk, little action, and have a lead from behind mentality. I’ll reserve judgement for individuals on a case by case basis, valuing action over rhetoric. Which leads us to your next question…

@Cactus

Do you really know what their perception is? I don’t know anyone in a militia, but always thought they were primarily anti-governmental authority abuse.

None of us can peer into the minds or hearts of militia members. We can observe their actions though. They can scream from the mountain tops that they hate abuse of governmental authority. They can arm themselves and cosplay ubermench in the woods all day, every day.

In real life, right now, the police are abusing their authority. People(Black, Latinx, white, LGBTQ, men, women, etc.) are protesting that abuse. The police are responding by doubling down on the abuse while committing war crimes on and beating the protesters.

If a militia member was truly against abuse of authority they’d stand in solidarity with the protesters. Instead, we see militia members getting fist bumps and shout outs from the cops. Guess what…they were full of shit. Their words meant nothing. I will judge them the same way I judge the Dem politicians: actions over rhetoric.

@Cactus

First must come the solidarity. That means finding and tackling the issues we align on and not get hung up on what we don’t. As I said earlier, Black people being at much higher risk during a police encounter is absolutely a result of systemic racism. But the actual problem at hand here are the out of control POLICE! Why not address one issue at a time so as not to get divided and bogged down, which is exactly what the establishment counts on?

I’m just throwing spitballs. I don’t see how we ever unite when everyone plays right into the hands of the elites by keeping us busy engaged in culture wars

You and I are aware enough to know that politicians who are in the back pockets of the billionaires will never lead us out of the Status Quo Desert of Injustice. Change for the better comes from direct action and grass roots movements.

I don’t mean to have this come off as attacking you. However, even when I charitably read what you wrote, I see it as (uninformed?)criticism of activists who are doing their level best to use the limited resources that they have to bring change to their communities. You and I do not get to tell the people doing the work what order they should address problems in. What authority do you or I have? What expertise do we possess? What track record of success can we point to and say, “You activists should do things the way I feel is best.”?

Those that seek to divide us will always find a wedge to use as culture war fodder. The antidote is solidarity. It’s free to give and impossible to run out of. When I see people struggling for dignity, I don’t debate whether they should be trying to combat police brutality or systemic racism first or second. My solidarity is unconditional.

[Danspartan]

This one is pretty damn funny. I don’t think he lasted a day.

cuse

[anon38180840]

Two days. Then the Beirut explosion happened.

[BestOf]

Alright gang, let’s take a look at some of the finest posts of the past 4 weeks:

@DrChesspain

@jmakin

man I get in arguments with idiots every day that cite wikipedia

@6ix

@Vict0ar

@jmakin

yea riverman’s ratio is nearly 3.0 likes/posts made

Ya people love riverman. It’s funny when others make the same point and get no likes but rm comes along and gets like 8.

And before y’all accuse me of being salty his points get likes instead of mine realize I am not someone who posts similar takes. It’s just something I noticed.

ya it’s weird

@poopypants

This reminds me of the time I was going to an ice cream shop to pickup a gift card. Now there are two employees, one is scooping the ice cream and the other is manning the cashier. There was a long line of people getting their ice cream. So I decided to skip ahead to the cashier since I was only buying a gift card. As soon as I walked up to the cashier someone at the back of the line yells, “Hey! Who do you think you are?”

I replied, “I’m the guy with the third highest likes per post on Unstuck Politics.”

Needless to say that shut him up.

@MattyLice

@WichitaDM

@poopypants

Abortion isn’t their sole issue. It’s their moral escape hatch when confronted about their horrible political views. Their true motivation is racism, bigotry, and other deplorable views. It’s why the anti-abortion crowd keeps finding the worst racist pieces of shit in society to put into office despite having the numbers to determine the outcome of any republican primary. But when they’re confronted about voting for a horrible person, rather than giving an honest answer they can fallback on abortion. It also allows them to believe they have the moral high ground, because without the abortion issue they’d have to confront the reality that the rest of their views are awful.

COVID-19: Chapter 5 - BACK TO SCHOOL

It’s still an incredibly stupid take, and to think that any other president, Democrat or Republican, would do basically the same as Trump is, shall we say, deranged. Under a remotely competent president, Democrat or Republican, we would have had researchers on the ground in Wuhan at the immediate outset to start gathering samples and researching the disease. We would have already had a pandemic response team ready to go with an actual plan in place rather than waiting around to appoint a relig…

@StimAbuser

To me as a progressive the way I see it is

1. Trump wins. GG democracy. I have yet to see an even remotely convincing argument from the don’t vote types on why this isn’t true, just lol thats fake news level bullshit. I won’t waste time on why its GG democracy because that has been spelled out clearly.

2. Yes a lot of the arguments are true that voting for the lesser of two evils has fucked us, the establishment has fucked us and continues to fuck us, but the most important thing that shockingly hasn’t been brought up is…

Demographics, they are a changing. There is only one route for progressives to win in this country. It’s for Biden to win, us to hold onto democracy a little longer, and wait for demographics to change and millennial to become the major voting block. This is literally the only path. Yes the establishment is too strong and it fucking sucked they fucked Bernie and all of us because they’re straight up evil

I was on the fence on whether to vote Biden or not for awhile after Bernie lost, but this became pretty clear to me. Maybe its because I’m younger, and I see how much more progressive my age group is first hand, and maybe if you’re a older progressive this option sucks because you won’t live to see it, but do the younger generation a solid and help us fucking get there.

If Trump wins 0 chance of progressive change in mine or anyone heres lifetime.

If Biden wins I think its inevitable. I mean look at the progress we’ve made in the last two elections, of course the old ghouls are going to fight us tooth and nail and we will lose battles but time is on our side.

@anon38180840

@Jalfrezi

@StimAbuser

wait for demographics to change and millennial to become the major voting block

What % of millennials do you estimate will still be voting blue by the time they’re the majority?

Some here might consider me moderate. 2018 was my first party line vote. I will never vote for anyone in the GOP right now as long as I live. They towed the line for this, so they are dead to me. I have friends right of me on the political spectrum who say the same thing.

@StimAbuser

We ain’t getting ours. Even the ones who do see what it’s done to their friends and it disgusts them

Yep. I’m sort of getting mine, but I’m about to risk my health to keep it because not having it is a threat to my health too.

I have friends who have been forced to leave this country by the policies of this administration. Friends who, by the way, are more idealistic about the good of America then most Americans despite being progressive. But they have scary last names and brown skin, so they don’t get the opportunities they want. This enrages me. I will never vote for anyone who supported the party and the man who took that from them. No tax cut, no amount of money, no policy can rival the desire I have to see them handed their pink slips by voters.

I have friends being forced back to work or working in less safe jobs because of the pandemic. My best friend’s wife is like 8 weeks backlogged on receiving her unemployment benefits. She’s a teacher, she’s terrified to teach in person. I gave her some KN-95s yesterday. I will never vote for anyone who supported the party and man who wanted to send her back and put that worry and anguish on her and my friend.

I have a friend who lost his net worth paying his dying mother’s medical bills because insurance wouldn’t cover the treatment that might save her. Then he lost his business from the pandemic, and his side hustle. So he drove Uber, caught covid, and 4-5 months later he still has symptoms. I will never vote for anyone who supported the party that allowed all that to happen to people in the richest country on this planet.

My 71 year old dad is bowling weekly in his league. 50 people, most not wearing masks, he took his off. A couple weeks ago he was mocking anti-mask people. Now he thinks he’s safe, and keeps denying that if he gets it my 72 year old mom will too. I will never forgive the monsters pushing bullshit that made him feel safe to do that, whether he gets lucky and avoids it or not.

The GOP is dead to me. There is nothing they can do to ever get my vote.

@catfacemeowmers

I can just imagine a bunch of enlightened unstuckers crowing about how slavery abolitionists haven’t even come up with a plan for how plantation owners are supposed to make money if we get rid of slavery. Some people are saying they’re fine with indentured servants, some people aren’t - you can’t even agree on what you mean by abolish slavery! And we’re still waiting on an example of large scale cotton and tobacco production that DOESN’T rely on slaves.

That’s not even getting into the practicalities - black people don’t exactly have the highest approval ratings, and meanwhile like 50% of our presidents have been southern white men.

Why don’t we focus on laws that prohibit certain TYPES of lashings, and maybe make a publicly accessible record of the abusive slaveowners. We can hire some people to travel from plantation to plantation and give sensitivity training. Maybe require some type of two year degree before being eligible to bid at slave auctions. You know, something that has a realistic shot of becoming law. If we’re really lucky, in 10 years we can pass a law mandating that a minimum of 15% of slaveowners are women or POC.

@anon38180840

@Riverman

Jesus fucking Christ.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/politics/mike-pence-fundraiser-qanon-supporters-trump-reelection/index.html

WWG1WAAF

@TheDuker

Carlson: Pandering phony!
Hannity: Scripted and staged, inauthentic!
Jones: Firefighters are crisis actors!

@anon46587892

Lock down Trubisky until 2030

@anon38180840

@NotBruceZ

Do what you want. You should be free to quote anything you find on the internet.

How about in a book? Like, say:

Proofreading 101: A Gambler’s Perspective

Much of what follows is from the Internet.

@Nononocantsleep

How about we all just imagine this interaction happened?

Nunn: “I am passionate about getting people stimulus help ASAP, but I understand your PoV and respect your passion for others. This got out of hand, and I think I deserve more respect than you’ve given me, but let’s agree to disagree and move forward.”

Cuse: “I am passionate about ensuring that evil people don’t have control over politics, but I understand your PoV and respect your desire to get people help ASAP. This got out of hand, and I think I deserve more respect than you’ve given me, but let’s agree to disagree and move forward.”

BOOM. We just made the forum a better place and added 10 years of life to the scrollwheel on my mouse.

https://unstuckpolitics.com/t/moderation/942/2446
This post was flagged so it can’t be quoted or posted here, clicky click.

@wirelessgrinder

Also it occurs to me that USA will basically always commit these atrocities and during that time period will pretend it’s necessary or not happening at all. Then when we finally do accept it was bad down the road, we just say, well that was a long time ago and we didn’t know better but we do now, shame we didn’t know then, essentially. Rinse and repeat.

@suzzer99

Stolen from a friend-for those of us continually struggling to figure out how Trump could still have a solid 42% support despite 200,000 Covid19 deaths and the most corrupt and inept administration in our nations history, this explanation is as good as any:

“To answer the question-- Why do people continue supporting Trump no matter what he does?

A lady named Bev answered it this way:

“You all don’t get it. I live in Trump country, in the Ozarks in southern Missouri, one of the last places where the KKK still has a relatively strong established presence. They don’t give a shit what he does. He’s just something to rally around and hate liberals, that’s it, period. He absolutely realizes that and plays it up. They love it. He knows they love it. The fact that people act like it’s anything other than that proves to them that liberals are idiots, all the more reason for high fives all around.

"If you keep getting caught up in “why do they not realize this problem” and “how can they still back Trump after this scandal,” then you do not understand what the underlying motivating factor of his support is. It’s fuck liberals, that’s pretty much it.

"Have you noticed he can do pretty much anything imaginable, and they’ll explain some way that rationalizes it that makes zero logical sense? Because they’re not even keeping track of any coherent narrative, it’s irrelevant. Fuck liberals is the only relevant thing. Trust me; I know firsthand what I’m talking about.

"That’s why they just laugh at it all because you all don’t even realize they truly don’t give a fuck about whatever the conversation is about. It’s just a side mission story that doesn’t matter anyway. That’s all just trivial details - the economy, health care, whatever.

"Fuck liberals.

"Look at the issue with not wearing the masks. I can tell you what that’s about. It’s about exposing fear. They’re playing chicken with nature, and whoever flinches just moved down their internal pecking order, one step closer to being a liberal.

"You’ve got to understand the one core value that they hold above all others is hatred for what they consider weakness because that’s what they believe strength is, hatred of weakness. And I mean passionate, sadistic hatred. And I’m not exaggerating. Believe me. Sadistic, passionate hatred, and that’s what proves they’re strong, their passionate hatred for weakness. Sometimes they will lump vulnerability in with weakness. They do that because people tend to start humbling themselves when they’re in some compromising or overwhelming circumstance, and to them, that’s an obvious sign of weakness.

"Kindness = weakness. Honesty = weakness. Compromise = weakness.

"They consider their very existence to be superior in every way to anyone who doesn’t hate weakness as much as they do. They consider liberals to be weak people that are inferior, almost a different species, and the fact that liberals are so weak is why they have to unite in large numbers, which they find disgusting, but it’s that disgust that is a true expression of their natural superiority.

"Go ahead and try to have a logical, rational conversation with them. Just keep in mind what I said here and be forewarned.”

I’m going to re-read this every time I get frustrated with Rs blatant hypocrisy. Bev nailed it.

@Mr_Unstoppable

$14?!?! I make something like this at home every day for a fraction of the price. Probably tastes better and the savings helped me pay off my student loans and buy a house in only a few months.

@Bigoldnit

The reason why we get hit with the Lol lawbros schtick isn’t because the courts don’t rule against Trump. They do. A lot. The problem is that, even when they do, the rulings come down so late and the enforcement mechanisms behind them are so weak, that significant damage has been done and cannot be undone by the ruling.

• How many changes did Trump get to make to the Muslim ban before he finally found a version that passed muster? Did anyone in his administration suffer significant consequences for drafting the unconstitutional versions or were they basically on a freeroll?

• Are hundreds of sorting machines going to be reinstalled before the election? Are people going to be compensated for the consequences of late checks, medicine, and food?

• Has Congress or the NYAG gotten the Trump tax returns yet? Did I miss some Congressional testimony from Don McGahn?

I get the inclination to point to rulings as signs that the rule of law is still working, but, at some point it’s also necessary to look beyond the formalism and realize that, even when the rulings are going against him, the resolution is so slow, and this administration is so brazen, that a couple of bench slaps aren’t actually preventing or repairing the harm.

@JohnnyTruant

Idk man. I mean in the Adam Sandler movies the rich, narcissistic bullies are often beating the hapless good hearted goofballs, but then it turns out good guy dork losers are actually really appealing to sexy models and once they get focused they can beat all odds. So with a little luck, a lot of effort, and a plan that just might be crazy enough to work, trump and Mitch will end up driving their golf carts into the pond and that giant alligator that bit off greens-keeper Rob Schneider’s limbs will chase them right out of town.

@Trolly

@wirelessgrinder

ACA going down opens the door to m4a right?

ACA going down opens the door to you dying in the street.

@spidercrab

@spidercrab

@NhlNut

Do you accept Skyline Chili gift certificates?

The most recent donation has been received. Thanks?

I will of course provide a trip report of my consuming this chili, but I’m not sure when that’s going to be.

Unstuckers get restless and demand a conclusion to this saga.

@SensiblePerson

I want to know if you’ve eaten the chili or not.

I attempt to put them off by making a Trump-like claim of “just a few weeks”.

@spidercrab

I still have not used the skyline chili gift card, although I will probably be doing so this month

Month’s almost up, spidercrab. When is this going to happen?

Answer

Am I worried? A little. After all, fellow Ohio resident Trolly tried to warn me:

@Trolly

Don’t eat the Skyline, man. It’s a trap.

But as the card says,

Today was the day I entered Skyline Chili, and Skyline Chili entered me.

For those of you who haven’t had the pleasure, here’s the menu:

I had $25 to burn and since I haven’t yet reached suicide-levels of self hatred, I planned to stretch it out over a couple of visits. Today I went with two items:

Back at home:

The unveiling:

Cheese Coney

And?

The verdict

This was not bad! The mustard and onions added a nice flavor to the chili cheese dog, and the steamed bun ensured that neither the hot dog nor the chili were too overpowering.

This was a relatively small item (only 350 calories per the menu), and it makes for a good snack. Would buy again.

Next up, the Coney Bowl. The unveiling:

Coney Bowl

Oh no. Let’s mix it up and hope it looks better.

Coney Bowl, attempt 2

Better I guess? Not really. This does not bode well.

And the taste?

The Verdict

There’s no other way to say this - it was really gross. Hot dogs, on their own, are not great. This chili, on its own, is very bad. The congealed cheese was the MVP of the dish, but I can’t emphasize enough how low that bar was. The combination was a trifecta from hell.

I would never purchase this item again. I ate it more than 7 hours ago, didn’t eat anything for dinner, and I still feel this clump of garbage in my stomach. Trying to address the distress with a drink:

But it’s not really helping. I suspect I’m going to be cursing @NhlNut over the next 12 hours.

In any event,

The good news is that I’ve still got $15 of the original $25 left. Can’t wait for part 2.

Neither can we, spidercrab. Neither can we.

[Trolly]

Is there an address where we can send spidercrab a gift card for food that isn’t terrible?

[WichitaDM]

Donations thread is way more amazing that I thought I guess.

[CanadaMatt3004]

Better yet, is there a place we can send gift cards for food that is much much worse?

[Riverman]

The calorie counts on that Skyline menu are the most preposterous lies I’ve ever seen in print.