Lana Condor 2020
Grunching, haven’t watched the debates yet, lol.
I still like Warren. I can’t help it. Maybe I just grade on a curve too much.
existence is pain
but your hate is pure
they can’t ever take that away from you
yeah uh let’s simmer down a touch
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CHILD FROM SUMMER AND PIE FROM APPLES
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This is gonna get weird on the forum what with me being a hard Bernie supporter and being to the left of him on a number of things but… Strong disagree here.
What’s your argument against it? Seems pretty obvious that if Warren was really a strong progressive and cared more about the country than her own power she would kill this story and de-escalate instead of fanning the flames. Regardless of whether or not it’s true.
I’m gonna sleep on it but for now it I’ll just say it feels like “fake” is way too extreme and this doesn’t erase her decades of work and, to get a little cute, if she’s fake it means she fooled Bernie himself as well.
p.s. Also, Warren is in the realm of (along with Bernie and other good guys) having her power and her care for the country not be mutually exclusive. If she strongly believes her specific set of beliefs are best for the country then of course she’s gonna care a lot about her own power to effect things.
There’s this exchange from the debate thread:
I don’t think she’s a liar who is completely making things up.
They both seem to agree that they discussed the topic of what would happen if a woman ran against Donald Trump in 2020. He says that Trump will weaponize anything, so he believes that gender is just another vector of attack that Trump can use.
This from Salon describes what I think is the most likely scenario:
But the truth is, as philosopher Kate Manne explained on Twitter, there’s a space where both interpretations of this conversation have legitimacy. On one hand, it’s true that a female candidate would face an uphill battle against the ingrained sexism of the electorate, not to mention the vicious misogyny of Donald Trump. So it makes sense that Sanders sees these comments merely as “telling it like it is,” even if one wonders why he seemed to feel that Warren needed telling, when she’s got a lifetime of direct experience.
On the other hand, it’s also true that men often use the “it’s not me, it’s the world” cover to discourage women’s dreams and ambitions, and often for self-serving reasons. Many women have had the experience of a man who, because he likes having someone else do the housework or because he feels his ego is threatened, “informs” a woman in his life that she must scale back her goals because of sexism — not his sexism, of course, but you know, someone else’s.
So it’s entirely possible that both things are true and no one is lying: Warren heard him say a woman couldn’t win this election, and Sanders felt he was just telling it like it is. This would also explain why Warren is insisting this is no big deal, as his comments were, at worst, a bit of self-serving mansplaining rather than a real effort to shoot down her campaign.
This explanation fits what I perceive as the character of both candidates.
So, why did this story flair up now? I wonder if it was retaliation for the Sanders script with anti-Warren talking points that was apparently actually distributed by the campaign in some early voting states. The initial claim was that it was a rogue volunteer on Slack, with some Bernie Bros claiming it was fake, but the new story is that it was an official campaign document that was pulled because it was “sloppily worded”. After it had been reported about, of course.
This is going to be an unpopular take, but Bernie completely failed last night. I love Bernie, I get that the debate questions were rigged against him. That doesn’t change the fact that last night was a complete failure. He should have known this is how the questions would be and been better prepared to respond.
It’s great that he’s been championing universal healthcare for 30 years or more. It’s my #1 issue, but how has he possibly not come up with better messaging to answer how are you gonna pay for it in those 30 years? I hate Klobs but she’s right that the party isn’t there yet, so for his signature issue Bernie needs to have better messaging that converts those in the party who aren’t there yet. His messaging is weak on this topic and doesn’t bring anything new to the table so it’s not converting anyone at this point.
Even more unpopular take incoming, Bernie can’t win and it’s been made very clear at this point the Democratic party will do everything in their power to stop him. The most progressive candidate that can actually win the primary is Warren, and as much as many Bernie supporters are going to hate her right now, she’s your best shot.
I would add that having listened to the way Bernie talks for years it seems almost certain that the scenario in NotBruceZ’s post is what happened.
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Warren’s lucky the Dems are playing nice but if she wins the nomination you better believe videos like the one below are going to be used in a lot of attack ads against her by Trump. Also with her recent polling falling due to her political decisions I don’t really have the confidence I had in her when she was my 2nd/3rd choice a few months ago
https://twitter.com/organizingpower/status/1217129097245155328?s=21
That Salon article is gibberish. This woman4prez business is scummy and stupid, Warren fucked up, but, um, people make mistakes, I guess is where I’m at.
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Agree, the messaging especially is just astonishing to me. It would be so easy to just say something like “No one ever questions how we will pay for tax cuts to billionaries or subsidies to oil companies destroying the environment, so why is the question only raised when we propose something that helps millions of Americans? Fact of the matter is, under our current system, America spends more money than any other country in the world, yet X million people still lack insurance, and people still go bankrupt even if they have insurance. The system I propose is not some pie-in-the-sky idea, it is similar to the ones being used by our friends and allies around the world. America is the greatest country in the world, so shouldn’t we have the greatest healthcare system? Because right now, we don’t.”
Hell, could even throw in something about how our current system, with employers paying for health insurance as a benefit, is a large reason why actual salaries have not increased, because the money that would have gone to salary increases instead are going to increase healthcare costs, but that might be a little too complicated for people.
Are ppl seriously trying to rehash the “fake Indian” argle-bargle?
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I don’t understand why some people see that as a big deal or a negative for Warren. Other than giving Trump some fodder for a nickname, is it relevant to anything?
The right thing to do for the good of the progressive movement is clearly not what Liz is doing. She is doing what is good for Liz. She always does what she perceives to be good for Liz over what is good for progressivism. It’s why she didn’t run in 2016.
That might be a bit over cynical but I could never see Bernie running with “Liz said a jew could never be president” whether she said it or not. Because he would value another supposedly progressive candidate over the minute chance running with that story gained him 2% in the polls.
And yet (checks predictit) Warren’s current odds are right there with Bloomberg.
Even with some of my angry takes on her I’d still be quite happy if she is the nominee. She is light years better than most in the party.
Well, of course, Bernie is the genuine article and it’s why we love him.
What I think I was trying to say is I’m judging Liz compared to humanity, or even other dems, and not to Bernie.