With Bitcoin at an all-time high, I suppose it is time for this thread.
If you need to know one thing about my personal politics, it’s that I hate libertarians, hate them with a passion, hate everything they like simply because they like it. And libertarians love Bitcoin. Why do they like it so much?
Bitcoin, at its heart, is a plot to take down government–something that I, as a self-proclaimed statist, naturally oppose–by striking a blow against that great libertarian bogeyman, fiat money. As David Golumba notes in his (very) short book The Politics of Bitcoin: Software as Right-Wing Extremism, there is a strong connection between Bitcoin and right-wing conspiracy theories about the Federal Reserve.
Returning to the gold standard is one of the dumbest ideas known to man and anyone advocating for that should never have a serious role in government or influencing economic policy. Or a non-serious role. Maybe janitor.
Bitcoin is an attempt to create “digital” gold. The concept of “mining” Bitcoin was established to create an analogy to gold. The supply of Bitcoin grows slowly, like gold being mined, and becomes harder to extract just like you have to go to greater depths to dig up gold as mines get tapped out.
Whether intended as such, Bitcoin is a vehicle for right-wing fantasies about being free from government control. Like the realization of all right-wing fantasies, it is bad for society. We should not encourage its growth and acceptance.
tl;dr: I’m Fiat4Lyfe. Bitcoin’s base of support are libertarian conspiracy theorists who should all DIAGF.
I try not to think too much about bitcoin but the fact that it wastes as much energy yearly that 7 nuclear power plants produce should uh give anyone reasonable pause.
I thought the idea behind digital currency was that it could be hidden from governments and therefore could escape taxation, that was one of it’s big selling points in Cryptonomicon last century. Thinking governments can’t figure out a way to tax people because of Bitcoin seems pretty short sited. While it has probably helped with the advancement of GPUs it is certainly a monumental waste of resources. Too bad they can’t include the cost of the electricity used to farm them into their value.
It’s worthwhile to separate this discussion between Bitcoin, which has little to no redeeming value, and blockchain which is a significant invention that is having substantial positive effects in all kinds of ways.
I was listening to a podcast the other day talking about how blockchain was being used in some places where things like deeds are not created for saved. People literally can’t prove what they own. Blockchain is providing a way to do this.
I’m not as down on the idea of blockchain. I could see the value in a cryptocurrency using blockchain where the ledger is used to prevent money laundering.
What Bitcoin was created for ultimately doesn’t matter, what and how it is used will be determined by the people who buy/store/use it. The libertarian anti-government supporters of Bitcoin are a small subset of its users. The same lunatics that use Bitcoin as a vehicle for right-wing fantasies did/do the same thing for gold and other precious metals. Bitcoin is the natural transition from gold as we move into a more digital era where people care less and less about have a piece of metal.
I remember the time when libertarians and assorted crazy people were convinced that Bitcoin would take down banking, even when a simple transfer was costing more than $20 and often took half a week to complete.
It’s not a waste for the people using the energy. If they viewed it as a waste, they wouldn’t mine Bitcoin.
Using non-renewable energy to mine Bitcoin is bad. But that’s not Bitcoin’s problem. That’s the problem of governments around the world to not force a swifter transition to a more climate-friendly energy model, for example through carbon taxes. Difficult problem though, because miners will just keep moving to the locations that allow them to mine the most bitcoin for the lowest cost. The real solution is getting the cost of using renewable energy to mine Bitcoin to be less than using a non-renewable energy source that kills our planet.
It’s been a couple years since most of my conversations with crypto enthusiasts, so I don’t recall every aspect that stuck out to me, but if I were to design a ponzi scheme that targeted libertarians, it sure would be crypto currency.
Fiat money, like most(maybe all) libertarian bogeyman, seems to be a thing that libertarians are simultaneously 1) railing against, and 2) attempting to recreate, but with a new set of people in charge(who they hope and beleive will be themselves).
Libertarian-types tend to confuse the tools that oppressors use to maintain their dominance with the actual systems that allow those tools to be controlled by the few. So, they see banks, and the governments that serve the banks, using fiat money and believe that freedom comes from doing a John-Galt-judo-flip away from fiat; rather than collectively gaining freedom by ending the dominance hierarchies that underpin the ability of the few to use fiat as a means to exert control over the many.
A common buzzword I remember amongst crypto enthusiasts is that their preferred crypto-currency is “decentralized”. I think this is perceived as being preferable in part because the fiat money that they despise comes from central banks, and libertarian-types in general despise central planning that they associate with “tyranical” economic systems that they barely understand beyond their certain belief that if it’s not rugged individualistic capitalism, it’s crap.
But the decentralization that they are talking about is not a decentralization of power which would require things like equitable distribution, or democratic decision making. Instead decentralization means something more akin to a limited capacity to work collectively to achieve equitable treatment. In effect, one of the traits of crypto that LTers beleive will allow them to achieve freedom, is actually a characteristic that will keep them subject to those with the actual power.
ETA: as I mentioned it’s been a couple of years since I discussed this topic, so if I’m way off, I’m open to correction.
Bitcoin is already gold 2.0 and it’s certainly here to stay. I own bitcoin but see no chance or desire for it to “take down the government” or usurp the USD or anything like that. But I do think it has several advantages as an investment over assets like gold or stocks right now. Calling it morally wrong because it promotes right-wing fantasies seems like quite the stretch.
I think it’s much more of an immature market which leads to higher long-term growth potential compared to most stocks right now. I think the internet has already “adopted” bitcoin and it seems highly likely that more people will become interested in it as onramps become easier to access and technology becomes more and more integrated with our lives. The portability, privacy, scarcity, and ease of use for online purchases are obvious advantages over gold.
Honestly when I first learned about bitcoin I too mostly thought it was an awesome way to illegally buy drugs online and hide assets from the government. The price was around $600 at that time. During the 1st blow off top to 20k I was too drunk and a mess in my personal life to have any serious investment but I saw a lot of friends get wrecked. I still thought there was some fundamental value in the asset though so once I got my life together I started building a position over the past couple years. I’m way in the green right now and sold a chunk at 19k but my targets for the future are still much higher.
There are certainly conditions where I would rethink my position. Even reading the replies in this thread I got that dreadful feeling like I’m doing something horribly wrong. I certainly wouldn’t want to live in a world ruled by bitcoin and its owners. Government scrutiny will continue to increase but I truly believe bitcoin is too big to “fail” at this point. Bitcoin’s OG libertarian dream is dead, but the niche it’s carved out in the current financial system will continue to grow.
Bitcoin is almost entirely mined using surplus renewable energy in China and Iceland so the amount of energy it uses is not that relevant these days unless Elon Musk is willing to build some massive batteries in those locations.
