Dunno if you are a troll or not, but it’s seeming like maybe not.
He doesn’t mean you have to post all day, but be a little more like a person in real life. This is a relatively small community (at least the regular posters) and some of us have known each other for a long time. I’ve known a couple people here for more than 15 years and I’ve met a bunch of people here irl. ChrisV there, I’ve met him twice and we’re on opposite sides of the world!
Fair enough. I’ve been bottling up rage all day at the notion that Liz hasn’t been relegated to the political hinterlands (by anyone even notionally wishing for a good person with moral leadership to be President) for this transparent stunt.
It’s been since Carter that a good person has been President. Liz got to go.
This is sooooooooo naive. There were two people in the room. You think Bernie Sanders was behind it?
Or do you think a Warren confidant leaked it without her blessing, then three more gave more info, all without her blessing? When it was super obvious that she and Bernie had a little tag team no aggression thing going on.
Then in a big old coincidence she made as big of a deal as she could about it without making it too obvious she wanted to make it a big deal.
But hey maybe Bernie Sanders leaked it to try to take down his own campaign. There are actual people who think Hillary Clinton conspired with Russians to help get dirt on herself, you’re basically on their level of conspiracy theory with the whole maybe Warren wasn’t behind it thing.
I think the theory goes like this:
Of course the theory evaporates under the slightest scrutiny. If the theory is true, Warren would have immediately contained it. Not only didn’t she contain it, she unleashed it and made it THE STORY of the night.
This still requires two close sources who Warren told directly to confirm the story against Warren’s wishes.
Warren will never, ever be President. I am her near perfect ideological target, and I can’t stand her. Horrendous person, and horrendous politician. Playing the sexist card on Bernie Sanders, unreal. If Bernie is a sexist then I absolutely 110% am one too, and need to vote against Warren to protect myself.
It seems fairly likely to me that Warren’s campaign though the non-aggression pact was broken by the talking points script. I don’t know whether the decision to hit back came directly from Warren, but I don’t think she is going to hold back from something that she seems to sincerely believe is true.
Right now, we’re in a situation where the Iowa caucuses and their requirement that candidates meet a viability threshold means that campaigns don’t want to unnecessarily upset people who might have them as a second choice. If anyone is hanging around in the 15-20% range, then there are going to be some precincts where those candidates won’t reach viability and their voters are up for grabs.
Once we get through Iowa, the gloves can come off and the candidates should be more willing to be directly negative in future debates.
Hell hath one fury worse than white dudes with political opinions scorned, allegedly.
Liz (at losing the nom and her credibility with everyone)?
JFC the Bernie Bros and their thin skins are unreal.
yeah…recall upthread where I said this?
This thread is certainly radicalizing me to one side on this by sheer weight of example alone. The visceral reaction I’m having to reading these posts is making me want to defend warren, and she’s not even my candidate…and it’s really not helping the other guy.
Gonna bow out on this. The lack of self-awareness here is mind-blowing.
She was already very likely losing the nomination for months. I think you will find that you’re not gaining much credibility by saying Warren supporters are now worse than Florida Man supporters. I like how you think your rage justifies outrageous, bonkers assertions. Even if I grant the least Warren friendly interpretation of what happened, it’s a political campaign in the last 2 weeks before a vote, fairly or not Sanders has a mild misogyny issue to address.
If it matters, I don’t have a problem with the analytical point that women have a tougher time getting elected in America, so I’d have no problem with Bernie saying that as long as he did not imply they shouldn’t try, which I’m very sure he wouldn’t imply. So I also think Warren has a bit of a responsibility to address what was said in that meeting more directly, especially post handshake-gate, and it was journalistic malpractice that CNN didn’t follow up on it.
The Pete campaign staffer driven to defend Warren is too chef’s kiss.
The prosecution rests.
I’m very aware. I’m not a Bernie Bro at all, there is a good chance my cushy job goes away if he wins and he is the only candidate I legitimately fear that with. I’d LOVE IT for any other candidate to show that they had half the decency and good faith effort to consistently do the right thing that he so clearly does so that I could vote for them in good conscience. Unfortunately, they have all been massive morally bankrupt failures that are practically forcing me to vote Bernie. And it’s infuriating.
Yes, that’s exactly the theory. I mean step 1 has already been confirmed, and seems like it would be a standard practice for any well run campaign, so this whole “only Bernie and Liz knew!” argument is super disingenuous or willfully naive. Steps 2 and 3 could just be as simple as the fact that information leaks, especially mundane (on its face) information like this. I mean it’s not like she was accepting Russian oligarch bribes or something that she would be extra vigilant to keep locked down. It’s the kind of background information that gets shared as gossip within the organization because it helps define the relationship between the campaigns. You know, like the story that Klobs throws around office supplies. Nobody expressly leaked that to the media until the right person came around asking the right person about it, then it became a story, even though for a lot of people it was kind of an open secret already.
If you want to get more conspiratorial about it, step 3 could’ve been a Biden ally or some “centrist” Republican-lite power broker shopping around for exactly this kind of information, and if that’s the case it wouldn’t be too difficult to uncover something exactly like this. If you do some Bayesian thinking you’ll probably understand that this specific information leaking is probably not that improbable given there are a number of other things they could’ve found worthy of magnifying into a wedge issue, but this is the one they found. I mean these are high stakes campaigns. The winner may be our last hope for democracy. There will be points of friction no matter how well the candidates get along.
I actually don’t even think it’s that conspiratorial given the predictable end result of who this helps. It only feels that way because you have to parlay a couple layers of assumptions about what happened, and because this forum at least has already been prebiased into believing Liz did this. If you consider that the set of events necessary to reach any similar outcome is pretty wide that parlay looks easier to hit, and if you look at the motives objectively it really makes no sense for Liz to have done this. You should then be able to see a decent argument that Liz having nothing to do with this hitting the press is actually the simplest explanation.
There were four sources. Two heard it directly from Warren.
Tell us again how it becomes a story without Warren confidants? Tell us why Warren confidants confirm the story without her blessing?
Your scenario can only account for the two sources twice removed from the room.
I feel driven to tell you that I’m not a staffer.
I also feel driven to laugh at this whole thing. Did I step into a Qanon board by accident?
I mean if we want to talk about gendered reasoning, this argument that Warren is some kind of helpless bystander while two confidantes talk to the press, her campaign confirms the story and she makes a canned girl power speech at the debate… like if Pete was involved in a similar sequence of events I have a hard time imagining people arguing that he is not in control of his campaign, let’s put it that way.
But in any case, if you agree that this affair is damaging for Liz, then the alternative is that she has disastrous political instincts. You’re saying the outcome here was “predictable” yet there were multiple off-ramps which she refused to take.
What’s your answer? When brons1 is president what will he do?
it’s a bullshit question especially coming from a hire-more-women-guards clown
p.s. And no pause linking CNN after last night?