shut the fuck up
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Can we clarify that was in jest? I was about to moderate it but noticed that JT hearted it
OK, but wave after wave is going to happen regardless, right? You lock down now youâll get it later seems to be the rule. And then mostly the unvaccinated die even though probably vaccinated can spread at least a few of these variants. And then weâre still talking about these two weeks to slow the spread tactics two years on, at some point we just have to say, OK, what are our actual public health goals here? Because to me, taking countermeasures to merely delay an inevitable wave makes very little sense at this stage of the pandemic. Although that could change if Omicron or some subsequent variant causes significant mortality in children, then youâd want to do that to try to figure out how to get them vaccinated.
Of course.
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Im not calling for lockdowns.
If youâre a normal person, your choices at this point are to fully withdraw from society in exchange for a likely barely significant difference in your health outcomes, but you live the rest of your life as essentially a solitary existence. Or you live a normalish life that includes being ok with hundreds of thousands of preventable deaths every year, mostly of people who willingly made the choice to not take simple steps to prevent their own deaths.
Itâs two shitty choices for sure.
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OK well then do you not see these waves of infection as inevitable? Theyâre going to happen and it doesnât seem like vaccination stops them. Theyâre tearing through high vaccination states and countries too, obviously not nearly as deadly but still happening. If weâre not locked down and the waves are inevitable, whatâs to even get mad at the unvaccinated any more? They arenât causing it, theyâre just at higher risk because theyâre not vaccinated. Youâre just in you make your choices and you take your chances territory, right?
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Unvaxxed are still spreading more and are burdening the healthcare system. We could possibly live with higher transmission rates (long COVID still a question so debatable) if everyone was vaxxed.
I think waves are inevitable, but I think theres a big difference between waves and toppling the healthcare system and I really fear we are coming close to the latter. Also we dont live in a world with static tech. We have these Pfizer pills coming (which, if they are as hyped, could help a lot in wealthy countries) and we likely will get better vaccines and more tailored boosters. So delaying cases still has value.
I dont think lockdowns are tenable or desirable. I think 1) wear N95 in high risk situations when possible when case counts are high 2) rapid test on a mass scale 3) long-term investment in improving indoor ventilation all can be done without dooming us all to interact only in the metaverse. Would that eliminate waves? Probably not, but would allow more people to live more normally with less risk in a more equitable manner.
As always, there is a lot of middle ground between full lock down and doing nothing. Wearing masks and maintaining a bit of distance is simple, effective, and a very small thing to ask. The guy who wrote that shitty op-ed wonât even do that. I hope to be reading about him in another thread soon.
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Id be somewhat surprised if wearing an N95 when vaxxed/boosted wasnt pretty low risk vs Omicron, but fair point.
What annoys me is that I would be extremely surprised if everyone wearing N95 and being vaxxed/boosted wasnt effective in making a lot of places low risk, even with Omicron.
Bottom line, we are a point where first world people that want to avoid at least serious consequences can live a fairly normal existence (albeit masked and presenting vaxxed cards).
Pity the people want to vax but canât.
But those that can but donât will live (and die) in their own reality. Of course the brand new Pfizer pill will save them. While thatâs any less experimental, I have no idea.
So endemic is going to be redefined and way too many will die.
Sure. But my point is that while communities can and should do that, individuals and communities that reject that level of mitigation probably donât really impact the communities that want to implement that level of mitigation all that much. Because Elite Liberal City X can impose on the visiting Shithead Author testing requirements, masking requirements, vaccination requirements, whatever. And since Elite Liberal City X is eventually going to be faced with a wave it has to mitigate, does it really matter all that much the level of mitigation taking place outside the city? Itâs kind of a carryover in thinking from when we maybe thought that we could keep covid from being endemic if only Insert Shithead Group quarantined/masked/got vaccinated.
I certainly agree, though there is a whole spectrum of âwithdraw from societyâ, that could be as severe as ânever leave the houseâ and as innocuous as âskip the Super Bowlâ.
So heres a question then (not directed at you, just a jumping off point).
It seems possible Omicron can cause more severe outcomes in the vaxxed but unboosted.
No reason to think that 2 shots wont offer significant protection against bad outcomes, but possible it going to be significantly higher risk than against delta and the prior variants. Very possible that JnJ sees even more erosion.
But also very possible that, with a booster, most of the severe protection is restored at least for x amount of time.
At some point do (the royal) we then start saying fuck the unboosted in the same way that we say fuck the unvaxxed? Why or why not?
But why do we say fuck the unvaccinated?!? Itâs one thing when you could plausibly blame the continued existence of the pandemic on the unvaccinated. Now that the âpandemic of the unvaccinatedâ ship has well and truly sailed, I donât know. Do you get furious at strangers who donât wear seat belts and motorcycle helmets?
Yesterday. Somewhat facetious but there is a lot of intolerance for having to take precautions because 30%ish are morons. I donât have any person experience with anyone not wanting to boost that already got âfullyâ vaxxed. The old neighbor lady is somehow convinced she canât have the mRNA but she got JJ and is actively looking for another JJ as a booster.
Politicians donât have the stones or maybe the electorate is net too moronic to have unvaxxed lockdowns. Lots of handwringing in Philly over vax cards needed for indoor activities.
Im not with you on us having no reason to be angry at many of the unvaccinated or having no interest in their vaccination choice. They are harming society in much greater ways than people who dont wear seatbelts are. I do think its a little more complicated than âfuck the unvaccinatedâ and is going to get more complicated in the coming months.
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For months and months the message from the Federal government has been get your two shots, go back to normal, breakthroughs are rare. Heck we wont even authorize boosters for everyone. So I think it is going to be pretty hard to get booster rates up to where vax rates are today and think âfuck the unboostedâ is a bit harsh just because now weâve gotten a shift to âmy bad, go boost fast everyone good luck good luck CVS puts appointments online every day at 5 AMâ
Also think Omicron shows the danger of tying mitigation to vax rates instead of other public health KPI.
People who donât wear helmets on their motorcycle usually have the decency to just die when they face negative consequences rather than occupying an icu bed for a month that could have been used by someone who took reasonable precautions.
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But then thereâs different kinds of unvaccinated. Someone who got the virus and recovered, are they the same thing as someone who never got it and never got vaccinated? I donât think thereâs terribly good evidence for what sort of protection infection gives vs. vaccine, so I could see that as a reasonable choice to not get vaccinated. Similarly, I got vaccinated in March and got a breakthrough case in August. I havenât gotten a booster and probably wonât, at least for a while. Because again, I donât think there is good evidence that a booster is indicated in that situation. So when do I make the transition from Fully Vaccinated Good Boy to Subhuman Unboosted Piece of Shit?
So for me, itâs much better to just not judge people for their vaccination status at all. In any case, it doesnât change a thing if youâre mad at the unvaccinated or not, so why bother. And Iâve convinced three or four people to get vaccinated with reason and kindness, and I doubt that an attitude of GET VACCINATED YOU PIECE OF SHIT would have been as effective.