Just jumped over to the council of captain’s website. That shit is legit fucking hilarious. Sabo with like 5 different usernames, pretending to be a whole bunch of users from here like Trolly, Commonwealth, and Wookie, talking to himself. A+. I predict a bright future for that forum.
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Neither of you make any sense at all as “right wing”
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Can we please restrict discussion to things that improve this forum or impact it in some way. Why do we need to stir shit up for no reason?
Nothing that happens there has anything to do with here so let’s not start a trend of back and fourth.
All it does is create more animosity and frankly that is EXACTLY what Sabo wants.
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One thing I don’t understand in this whole situation: It should be obvious to everyone ? now that this PM thread was a disaster and made a lot of people feel betrayed. It might have been well intentioned but it turned into a disaster. And it is not the publishing of PMs that made it disaster. Why no one of the participants owned their part in it and apologized?
What makes it soooo bitter for me is that I liked quite a bunch of people in the PM thread. I try now in my head somehow to build a bridge where I can somehow still be at least OK with them. I wish they made it easier.
I also wish @j8i3h289dn3x7 would be able to control himself and avoid any poking direction jal. I want this war to stop.
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Just as a general rule, there’s no reason you should ever give any legit personal info or real email addresses to a web forum like 22 or UP and you should always assume nothing in your pms is private. Even if you trust the admins, you never know if a site will get hacked (didn’t that happen to 22?) and the next thing you know you get a bunch of ads for shady Russian cam girl websites. And I’ve been complaining to gregorio about the poor download quality of these sites but he won’t do anything about it.
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I’m still of the opinion that Jal was banned to stop him from complaining when England get beat on penalties later and didn’t want to see the match up between the Scots/English again.
Sad 
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This is my first post in the thread ^. It feels like it’s been days since I made it, so it was pretty surreal to find out it was only 24 hours ago.
I can certainly say now that I think I have a sense of the in-group / out-group dynamic. I wish I didn’t, but that’s what I get for diving into forum drama. (Amusingly, if we were to ask "who is in the in-group and who is in the out-group I think most people would describe themselves as part of the out-group–both the PMers and anyone not included in the PM thread–but that doesn’t matter.)
After 24 hours and the quieting of this thread thanks to the throttling (and the banning of some active posters, but let’s set that aside for now) it’s settling in how fucked up jmakin’s actions here were. He abused his admin powers on his way out the door to make a PM thread public with the clear intent of starting a shitstorm, which is just an absolutely insane breech of trust. Seeing him still going around liking posts is pretty tilting considering this.
I guess I’m supposed to be mad at the posters who were participating in that PM thread but I’m just not. There were plenty of posters in that thread who meant well and wanted to improve the community. In light of jmakin’s actions I have even more sympathy towards someone like JT, whose posts in the premature subforum RFC thread started by jmakin look even more calm and reasonable given what I now know about everything that was brewing under the surface. That thread was turned into a clusterfuck before it was even able to get off the ground.
It makes me wonder what an alternate universe looks like where JT, or someone else from the PM thread, was able to write up a proper OP with their proposal and the PM thread had never been made public. I didn’t like the subforum idea but would have at least appreciated it coming to light with a full explanation. Or hey, maybe things devolve regardless and we end up where we are now because the existing dynamic was impossible to overcome.
So yea, 24 hours later I’ve got a lot less confusion but a lot more disappointment. I guess hoping for people to act like reasonable adults on the internet is too much to ask.
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Just wanted to clarify something. Before the private thread was made public, SK invited a whole bunch of new people to it, including me, but many others. So a lot of us got to see the thread under completely unimpeachable circumstances, we were invited to read it. For example, I’m pretty sure Chads was invited to it and read at least some of it. I think it was SK’s intent to invite basically everybody to it except a few people who would be the most hostile to it.
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It’s werewolf, but we didn’t know we were playing it until wolfchat was made public briefly.
why would anyone? if they were trolling and toxic and mean then why would they?
and you can be sure that the rest of us have nothing to apologize for if you actually read the posts. but its become clear that since the thread was disappeared there is a concerted effort to rewrite the history of what was in it.
I am not gonna apologize for someone else talking shit. thats absurd.
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Lol I can’t believe I did a Vegas TR for you petty fucking children
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I’m bad with remembering who is who in the forum but wanted to say you pretty much echo my thoughts on this debacle pretty much on every post.
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hey look, more obvious bad faith bs from some random new poster!
The problem here, obviously, is not that someone said something mean in PMs. It’s that there was a coordinated large scale troll effort coordinated by people in PMs.
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Bollocks
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This is really a response to the About Moderation post you made but my 4 hours isn’t up there and I am going to be busy later so here ya go:
I don’t think you get to play the whole “I am disappointed in you” card on me on this one. I have not really been involved in this forum drama here that has been literally ripping the place apart for most of the last year other than to try and tell people to chill out about it. Those PMs shouldn’t have been made public but acting like the rest of us shouldn’t be disappointed in the content of them is kind of ridiculous. No I didn’t read them all. No I don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of what was in them or in every ridiculous and childish feud going on here. But I read enough to understand the basic tone and tenor of the conversation. And also the point of it. Sabo was having a laugh at your expense too. They successfully drug you into the mud and the fact you don’t see it and continue to act like there was nothing to see there is just not a very realistic take.
Secondly I have said in every post I have made that it wasn’t every participant in that PM thread really to blame here. Other than I really don’t understand why a few people I respect are joining forces with the people that they are and that there was very minimal pushback against most of it. I like you as a person and a poster. I have enjoyed Vict0rs posting. There were others in that PM thread that I respect as well. TBH I didn’t see a lot of poor behavior from most of the posters I was surprised to see in there but there wasn’t any pushback on the vitriol either. I’m not opposed to people trying to get together and make the place better. Far from it. But that wasn’t the purpose of many people there and it was obvious.
You are aligning yourself with people who are here to cause trouble and have no intention of ever resolving it. That’s what I am disappointed in. I could frankly care less what was said about me. I continue to care about this place being what it once was. I once did care deeply about this place. Anymore not as much. It’s because it isn’t pleasant to see 45 year olds act like toddlers and turn every single conversation around to their personal grievance with whoever. This place is being destroyed with that stuff and frankly when I found out that group was planning to leave I am not unhappy with it. I used to spend hours a day here and post way more. That was probably unhealthy anyways so maybe I am better off for it anyways.
Go look around the forum and there are barely any substantive discussions occuring anymore though. Joe Biden fired some missiles into the Middle East Sunday and it wasn’t even discussed here. It isn’t because people are asking for civility tbh either. People were much less civil long before the middle aged male whiner brigade decided to invade every thread with this nonsense. It’s that the place is being made unpleasant on purpose by a very small group of people. Every substantive thread is trolled and used as a place to air petty grievances. Now ask yourself. Why is it you think that group has it right? Why is it that you think that is a positive to this community? Do you not care that the content here has basically shrunk to nothing while this has been going on? Do you not want a good place to aggregate news and have relatively civil but spirited debate on important issues? I do. This place isn’t that anymore and if you think following Sabo into the abyss will be that I don’t know what to tell you.
And look Johnny you have always posted substantively here. I read and respect your takes on things even if I disagree with them. You easily make my top 10 posters here. So my beef isn’t personal with any of you really. It is that this place is suffering from the constant shit stirring that a select few are addicted to. In an ideal world people could be adults and that would be at a minimum. But it’s obvious some people are either incapable of that or are literally doing it on purpose.
Anyways I’m going to try and keep my comments to a minimum on this going forward because it is probably a waste of time at this point and it also isn’t good for my blood pressure or sanity. I do hope there is still some resolution that keeps this place from completely melting down. It’s just painfully obvious that PM thread (and the subsequent publication of it) is the complete opposite of that. It was intended to otherize the people that the PM group didn’t like and sow more discord. Maybe there was a thin veil of “We want to fix the forum” but the proof is in the pudding as they say and the behavior afterwards sure isn’t shooting for reconciliation, quite the opposite.
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See but here’s the thing Ikes, there wasn’t. Your response, should you choose to make it, should take into account me just sharing this new information with you.
Wait since we’re on the Chillout Clock I’ll do a twofer:
It was pretty much the opposite: the mischaracterization of the PM Thread started in earnest after ‘we’ couldn’t reference his posts. My scroll buttons scrolls in both directions. You all had plenty of time to read it (and maybe actually did, considering).
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Lol, the council of captains really going with the Trump/Comey “Even though I said it in front of a whole bunch of people and you have a recording of me saying it, it didn’t really happen” defense, eh? Just continued lol at Fidget fucking letting the whole game out of the bag and it being published and the captain’s council continuing to try to gaslight. Just a lol at Fidget creating a fake fucking account to vote for his own permabanning while his best bud @Jalfrezi tried to stir up more shit by pretending not to know that was a fidget gimmick. Lol at all of you.
@WichitaDM you speak my mind.
@JT2 I remember one of your posts: “They don’t want us to fk off, they want us to post like they want it”. It is clear separation in “we” and “them”. And since I am one of “them”… what do I want? Nothing. You can have this place.
@Vic.
My view of the things is that I am responsible for people with whom I associate. I mean… I obviously like you, I think that it is very cool that you put some effort into being more civil, it is very cool that you agreed to be admin in such situation. And with that comes that every time you lose control it is also on me.
I was deeply embarrassed as jal attacked sky out of the blue.
Yeah… Also appreciate HUGELY, like for serious big time the first sentence of your post here. It is food for thoughts for me for a couple of days.