I’m bad with remembering who is who in the forum but wanted to say you pretty much echo my thoughts on this debacle pretty much on every post.
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hey look, more obvious bad faith bs from some random new poster!
The problem here, obviously, is not that someone said something mean in PMs. It’s that there was a coordinated large scale troll effort coordinated by people in PMs.
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Bollocks
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This is really a response to the About Moderation post you made but my 4 hours isn’t up there and I am going to be busy later so here ya go:
I don’t think you get to play the whole “I am disappointed in you” card on me on this one. I have not really been involved in this forum drama here that has been literally ripping the place apart for most of the last year other than to try and tell people to chill out about it. Those PMs shouldn’t have been made public but acting like the rest of us shouldn’t be disappointed in the content of them is kind of ridiculous. No I didn’t read them all. No I don’t have an encyclopedic knowledge of what was in them or in every ridiculous and childish feud going on here. But I read enough to understand the basic tone and tenor of the conversation. And also the point of it. Sabo was having a laugh at your expense too. They successfully drug you into the mud and the fact you don’t see it and continue to act like there was nothing to see there is just not a very realistic take.
Secondly I have said in every post I have made that it wasn’t every participant in that PM thread really to blame here. Other than I really don’t understand why a few people I respect are joining forces with the people that they are and that there was very minimal pushback against most of it. I like you as a person and a poster. I have enjoyed Vict0rs posting. There were others in that PM thread that I respect as well. TBH I didn’t see a lot of poor behavior from most of the posters I was surprised to see in there but there wasn’t any pushback on the vitriol either. I’m not opposed to people trying to get together and make the place better. Far from it. But that wasn’t the purpose of many people there and it was obvious.
You are aligning yourself with people who are here to cause trouble and have no intention of ever resolving it. That’s what I am disappointed in. I could frankly care less what was said about me. I continue to care about this place being what it once was. I once did care deeply about this place. Anymore not as much. It’s because it isn’t pleasant to see 45 year olds act like toddlers and turn every single conversation around to their personal grievance with whoever. This place is being destroyed with that stuff and frankly when I found out that group was planning to leave I am not unhappy with it. I used to spend hours a day here and post way more. That was probably unhealthy anyways so maybe I am better off for it anyways.
Go look around the forum and there are barely any substantive discussions occuring anymore though. Joe Biden fired some missiles into the Middle East Sunday and it wasn’t even discussed here. It isn’t because people are asking for civility tbh either. People were much less civil long before the middle aged male whiner brigade decided to invade every thread with this nonsense. It’s that the place is being made unpleasant on purpose by a very small group of people. Every substantive thread is trolled and used as a place to air petty grievances. Now ask yourself. Why is it you think that group has it right? Why is it that you think that is a positive to this community? Do you not care that the content here has basically shrunk to nothing while this has been going on? Do you not want a good place to aggregate news and have relatively civil but spirited debate on important issues? I do. This place isn’t that anymore and if you think following Sabo into the abyss will be that I don’t know what to tell you.
And look Johnny you have always posted substantively here. I read and respect your takes on things even if I disagree with them. You easily make my top 10 posters here. So my beef isn’t personal with any of you really. It is that this place is suffering from the constant shit stirring that a select few are addicted to. In an ideal world people could be adults and that would be at a minimum. But it’s obvious some people are either incapable of that or are literally doing it on purpose.
Anyways I’m going to try and keep my comments to a minimum on this going forward because it is probably a waste of time at this point and it also isn’t good for my blood pressure or sanity. I do hope there is still some resolution that keeps this place from completely melting down. It’s just painfully obvious that PM thread (and the subsequent publication of it) is the complete opposite of that. It was intended to otherize the people that the PM group didn’t like and sow more discord. Maybe there was a thin veil of “We want to fix the forum” but the proof is in the pudding as they say and the behavior afterwards sure isn’t shooting for reconciliation, quite the opposite.
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See but here’s the thing Ikes, there wasn’t. Your response, should you choose to make it, should take into account me just sharing this new information with you.
Wait since we’re on the Chillout Clock I’ll do a twofer:
It was pretty much the opposite: the mischaracterization of the PM Thread started in earnest after ‘we’ couldn’t reference his posts. My scroll buttons scrolls in both directions. You all had plenty of time to read it (and maybe actually did, considering).
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Lol, the council of captains really going with the Trump/Comey “Even though I said it in front of a whole bunch of people and you have a recording of me saying it, it didn’t really happen” defense, eh? Just continued lol at Fidget fucking letting the whole game out of the bag and it being published and the captain’s council continuing to try to gaslight. Just a lol at Fidget creating a fake fucking account to vote for his own permabanning while his best bud @Jalfrezi tried to stir up more shit by pretending not to know that was a fidget gimmick. Lol at all of you.
@WichitaDM you speak my mind.
@JT2 I remember one of your posts: “They don’t want us to fk off, they want us to post like they want it”. It is clear separation in “we” and “them”. And since I am one of “them”… what do I want? Nothing. You can have this place.
@Vic.
My view of the things is that I am responsible for people with whom I associate. I mean… I obviously like you, I think that it is very cool that you put some effort into being more civil, it is very cool that you agreed to be admin in such situation. And with that comes that every time you lose control it is also on me.
I was deeply embarrassed as jal attacked sky out of the blue.
Yeah… Also appreciate HUGELY, like for serious big time the first sentence of your post here. It is food for thoughts for me for a couple of days.
There are adults here.
I’d say the vast majority of posters are reasonable and require zero to very little moderation.
Unfortunately it’s being drowned out right now by all this petty drama, nearly all of which could have been solved if people would just use the mute button on certain posters.
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I think I’m right wing too because I don’t think all landlords should die and believe some form of police is probably necessary.
I got invited to the thread about an hour before it was made public. I did not post in it, but I have read pretty much all 1,300 posts that were made prior to it becoming public. There is some vitriol, but not really anything that hasn’t already been posted out in the open. Certainly nothing out of the ordinary for how people talk about a forum and forum members when they talk privately in person, or on discord or slack, or in the old days over skype, aim etc.
I do not want to speak for anyone else, but reading through the thread my impression is that the sentiment is that people want to stay here and continue posting here. There is no push for a mass exodus to another forum, but a desire to find a space on UP where they (and anyone) can post with a model of self-governance that is different than exists in the other sections of the forum.
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Except the point people are making is that if you actually read the private messages Fidget’s trolling was a very minor part of it. It wasn’t even the point of the private message group.
bUt ThEiR pMs
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How was Sabo’s site supposed to help Unstuck? Was that part of the discussion or just admiring people’s attempts at trolling?
The charitable interpretation is that Sabo’s new venue can be a place to satisfy this need people have for a new community space with different moderation criteria.
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From his post yesterday itt
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How much of a fucking internet loser do you need to be to not get mentioned in this thread?
I’m disappointed in all of you, but I’m really disappointed in myself for not making the cut.
Also, hope you all move past this. I have 9 hour work days with only 2 hours of actual work that i need to fill.
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This is a very commendable take. But it should also be acknowledged that this take is not universally shared, at least not in totality.
It is hard to keep track of everything but I think one person who read the thread (after being invited) has withdrawn his candidacy of become forum admin and (I think) has quit the forum. He has written a long post describing his views about the thread so I won’t try to paraphrase. I think another person who read the thread (after being invited) has stepped down from being a forum mod and (I think) has also quit the forum.
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I feel ya. Got mentioned twice and the second was quoting the first.
And I don’t even understand why I was referred to the first time.
You are clearly trying to ruin the site and are british
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“Said something bad?” lol, well, if you use language that broad, sure, of course, and you know full well I would have. I’ve discussed mod decisions with other mods, and I’ve discussed mod decisions with the many community micromanagers who want to verify independently that the latest mod action was on the up and up. It would be impossible to do so without saying something negative about the target of the action. I don’t generally hurl petty insults at other people in private, but I’m not going to be so bold as to say I’ve literally never done it.
Leaving and/or starting anew? Only to say that I don’t want to.