Yeah, I’m not @ing Bernie people, to the extent that some of you had worries about Warren, this is a problematic about face for her right along the fault line of why you were worried. Policies aside, it seems like pretty bad tactical politics, I don’t think this gives her any more moderate cred, it just makes her open to being accused of wobbling.
My concern though is that I don’t want to see the Democrats obliterate each other over M4A, which, despite being the best and most ethical healthcare system, is a complete and total pipe dream in America.
I don’t know if I was a Hillary stan stan, but I was pretty mean to Bernie in 2016, but I think? it was mostly after he lost like in April and didn’t drop out for 2 months. Plus some of the Bernie’s support remains way too Gabbardish for my comfort. That said, we ran it with Hillary last time, fair play we run it with Bernie this time.
I disagree. Or at least I don’t think we’ll see that effect. One thing about Sanders is he instills intense passion from his supporters. Hillary had the opposite effect. Many voted for her nomination because a). The media ignored Sanders and refused to accept him as a serious candidate, and b). The DNC paved the way for Hillary. And now they are trying to do the same thing again to Sanders, but it’s not working out so well this time. I truly believe if he were a better politician and more ruthless, he’d be ahead by 15 pts in most polls by now
Crucify her? Yeah, some people on Twitter will be saying mean things, but the Democratic Party, MSNBC, the NYT, WaPo and CNN will love it. It will only look bad to people who are online all day. Brian Williams gonna love it, and they’re all going to say Bernie is just too unrealistic.
Warren was the big loser with Pete’s rise (as noted it’s the same general pool of voters, educated white people), she’s just trying to take some of those voters back.
Or torpedo’d her chances, we’ll see. She’s not a good political strategist but the twitterverse or people in this thread are a very small portion of the electorate.
I don’t think it’s Hillary stans per se that wouldn’t show up, it’s the suburban Republicans who are allegedly so disgusted with stable genius that they will vote for anybody but him. Bernie will test that proposition.
It’s also quite possible that if this starts going Bernie’s way, that the DNC will rig it against him (for real this time), making for a fatal schism the party wouldn’t recover from to win anything in the next cycle.
I don’t know about obliterate, but we REALLY REALLY REALLY need to fight for this!
Also, why do people insist on calling this a pipe dream when almost every other developed country on earth implements some version of it? I want to say that Medicare was issuing benefits not long after it was signed into law. Why shouldn’t the wealthiest nation on the planet be able to provide for the medical needs of its citizens?
Some people are saying this on M4A because under 0 circumstances they can even get 50 votes in the senate for that until at least 2024. Also costs will skyrocket way, way more than they already are when a blank check is written for them in this country is going to end up a huge problem. Some areas will have huge delays which sucks, nobody wants to wait for shit or in some cases, can.
Hopefully those issues are addressed beforehand but R’s are correct that they never are (because they never do either).
Because no Republican office holder is remotely for it, ~80% of elected Democrats aren’t for it. It’s a 2,3? trillion dollar industry that is what, just going to allow itself to be euthanized? Do you remember the Obamacare fight? It barely got through and it was literally Romney’s healthcare plan. To get this thing done politically you’re going to need so so much more than indignation. It took 40-50 years to bust the trusts in the Progressive Era, getting rid of the healthcare insurance complex is that kind of fight.
I mean she didn’t go all the way to repeal and replace, so good for her I guess? She’s now closer to the right flank of the Dems in the presidential race on healthcare than she is to her old position. I’d consider that completely collapsing.
The only reason it’s a fucking pipe dream is that the left allows it to be called a pipe dream without fighting back. The overwhelming majority of Americans support it when it’s properly branded and sold. The left is too bought and paid for, milquetoast and defeatist to fight for it. If and when we fight for it, we will win.
Like why have I never heard anyone on the right wing call it a pipe dream, and yet I hear it all the time from my friends on the left who actually want it??? I’m not just talking about on here, either. In real life all the time.
Try running for president as a Republican without an A+ rating from the NRA or without promising to appoint far-right pro-life judges. And what’s the result of that purity testing?
They’re on the verge of rolling back women’s abortion rights thanks to a stronghold on the courts and it’s virtually impossible to do ANYTHING to restrict access to guns federally.
Like what the fuck is the Democratic Party FOR if not for fixing the healthcare system through the best method possible? And we all know what that is. Warren and Pete have even admitted that single payer is the goal, despite both having positions that will make it hard to get to single payer anytime soon.
But everyone gets all up in arms if we try to “purity test” over healthcare. Nah, fuck it, let’s purity test from now on.
Passing M4A will require people in the streets nonstop. Bernie would bring people out. At this point I have no faith that Warren would, especially not in the 3rd year. So now I think if we don’t get Bernie 2020, we won’t get M4A for a long ass time.
X will be overwhelmingly popular if it were “properly branded and sold” is just a tautology, if you look at how M4A polls when it is explicitly stated that private insurance will be eliminated, the numbers go south. Has anyone done any polling recently on how popular M4A would be if it meant you had to switch all your doctors? Have you begun to calculate the political and monetary expense of fighting just the disinformation campaign that will be launched against M4A?
Yeah, exactly? It isn’t even my argument that it’s a bad idea to try to shoot for M4A this cycle (don’t get me wrong, I’m skeptical), but I was fine with Warren being for it when she was for it. So now she comes out with a more “incremental” plan that is still a complete pipe dream that I would snap call right now so fast it would make your head spin and she’s a traitor, like cool.
Do you love how America is the only country that has over 400 million privately owned guns, with hundreds of children having been killed in their own schools? Let’s confiscate all guns, is this a pipe dream?