Who will run in 2020?

[LouisCyphre]

My point is if something simple like a functioning website can take 6 months then the entire process will take considerably more than 2 years.

[boredsocial]

I mean that’s the whole reason why you use the Medicare system. The infrastructure is already there.

[LouisCyphre]

There are currently 60 million people enrolled in Medicare or Medicare Advantage. You will have almost 6 times that many under Medicare for All. You will probably need to rebuilt the whole infrastructure from the ground up.

[ChrisV]

The virtue of M4A is simplicity. I went to the NHS last time I was in England. I didn’t need to visit websites or fill out extensive paperwork, because it’s free to everyone. That said I agree people are in general painting a rosy picture of M4A and how easy everything will be under it.

[LikeClockwork]

@anon38180840

Then you rub our nose in it and tell us how stupid we are to oppose Pete for that one issue.

This is ridiculous.

[LikeClockwork]

@Sean

i go to the doctor once every two years for antibiotics when i get sick. i could care less.

Couldn’t

[LikeClockwork]

Skydiver is getting shit on because her candidate’s fantasyland plan that will never become law in a million years isn’t as good as the board’s chosen candidate’s fantasyland plan that will also never become law in a million years.

[Trolly]

@LikeClockwork

Skydiver is getting shit on because her candidate’s fantasyland plan that will never become law in a million years isn’t as good as the board’s chosen candidate’s fantasyland plan that will also never become law in a million years.

This seems like a dumb reason for all the rage that’s going on here. Y’all need to take a step back and dial it down.

[anon92450360]

@LouisCyphre

How long did it take to get the ACA signup website to get working properly?

Ugh I really hate how effective this talking point is. But it is.

I’ve been a plan admin for health plans from Florida BC/BS since early 2016 and I can tell you unequivocally that their Web site has never worked correctly in that time. It is so bad that we have recently been forced to revert to the ancient practice of Calling Customer Service just to pay our monthly premiums. What’s worse, they seem wholly uninterested in getting the bugs out of the site or really in helping us in any way. (They know that we have a grandfathered pre-ACA plan and won’t switch because of cost…not sure if that actually factors into their thinking or if they are just shitty for a different reason.)

From my vantage point I can see no more accountability in the private sector than in the public sector, except I can still help vote out the public sector.

[boredsocial]

@LikeClockwork

Skydiver is getting shit on because her candidate’s fantasyland plan that will never become law in a million years isn’t as good as the board’s chosen candidate’s fantasyland plan that will also never become law in a million years.

So single payer healthcare might be a fantasy in the 2020-2024 term. Fighting for it and losing is basically fine with me. We then name, shame, primary, and replace every single politician who fought it… and win the next time.

Expecting the current system to keep going business as usual simply isn’t viable, and when the rubber finally hits the road and this country finds itself in a real crisis and needs to find money that 6% of GDP we’ve been wasting is going to be the first low hanging fruit we pick. We need to lay the groundwork for that to happen ASAP.

Pete is getting clobbered ITT for spouting health insurance lobby talking points everywhere. You’re allowed to ‘disagree’ with single payer (although I’m virtually certain Pete knows enough about healthcare and economics to know better), but you’re not allowed to make bogus arguments about the cost of it. It’s cheaper than what we have now full stop. That talking point is equivalent to casting doubt on whether cigarettes cause cancer. It’s cynical in a super toxic way and it should be disqualifying.

There was a time when a ‘public option’ that helped control costs would have been enough. That time was the 2008-2012 term. That time has passed and the healthcare system has become even more expensive since then. Now the average American has pretty crappy health insurance and pays an awful lot in premiums, and basically nobody but the top 10% of the population is happy with their health insurance. They are woefully out of touch about this and now the question is when, not if, single payer gets done.

I certainly agree the odds are stacked against it for 2020-2022, and probably for 2022-2024.

Bottom line though: We have to start thinking longer term than just the very next election cycle. That’s how we’ll get better results than the Baby Boomers have.

[microbet]

One person is being kind of hostile, but it seems more like Pete is being ganged-up on and not skydiver8. At least I hope I’m not being a dick.

I understand her being sensitive about it though and she’s so involved and identified with Mayor Pete’s campaign.

[catfacemeowmers]

@microbet

One person is being kind of hostile, but it seems more like Pete is being ganged-up on and not skydiver8. At least I hope I’m not being a dick.

I was a dick to her. Not sure whether I regret it. We’re dicks to people often, look at how Keed and Nunnehi get treated when they post lolbad takes. Skydiver is not being honest, and that’s a really shitty way to approach discussions. At some point I no longer treat it as a respectful disagreement and begin treating it like intentional disinformation.

[boredsocial]

I mean skydiver8 has decided to stan for Pete no matter what he does and defend him against all comers. If she’s been attacked that’s why.

My feelings about Pete haven’t been changed in the slightest and I think he’s already done some really awful stuff in contributing to establishment attacks on Warren over the cost of single payer. He’s gone from being my 3rd place choice with a huge gap between 3rd and 4th to being one slot above Biden at the absolute bottom of the pile.

I have no idea how far he’d have to go to lose skydivers support but I’m guessing we’d be talking about stuff you could get indicted for. It clearly isn’t being a generally shitty person.

[microbet]

Keeed trolls. I don’t know exactly how to describe his flavor of trolling (there should be like 50 words for different types of trolling). Nunnehi is one of the most abusive people on the forum. skydiver8 isn’t doing anything other than supporting Pete. I’ve not followed well enough to know if she’s misrepresenting things, but I’m skeptical that it’s really been out of line.

[boredsocial]

It’s hard to not be dishonest when your candidate is being dishonest I suspect. She’s fighting the good fight.

[anon24898493]

Did Warren ever come out with her healthcare plan? If I was a betting man (I am actually) I would guess it will be a transition to single payer and probably not at a pace people on this forum will agree with.

[anon38180840]

@Sean

So the fact that I am in agreement with Paul Krugman on the issue doesn’t give you pause to call me a right winger?

The fact that you claim to be in agreement.

@Sean

I’ve literally admitted that Bernie’s plan would be cheaper than what we have now and that my position is solely that it is bad politically.

Hey guys, just a concerned citizen here letting you know that even though your liberal plan would be better than everything else, you shouldn’t run on it, you should run on something watered down that the American people will like more.

Nah, sorry. We’ve heard that bullshit before - doesn’t matter much whether it’s coming from a right winger, a moderate, or a Chicken Little Liberal.

@Sean

And you think that the majority of pundits are on your side?

I don’t give a fuck. The majority of pundits thought Trump couldn’t win, Hillary was the best candidate to beat him, Biden is the best candidate to beat him now, etc, etc… Most of the “pundits” are bought and paid for by corporate interests.

@Sean

That this is a smart political move? Do you have any polling to suggest that eliminating private insurance is popular with Americans?

It’s the smart move, the rest is about messaging and strategy. People don’t want to be bullshitted, and they want things fixed. You can craft a poll to make single payer popular, you can craft one to make it unpopular. Conclusion? Message on the popular parts, make it popular.

@Sean

i go to the doctor once every two years for antibiotics when i get sick. i could care less.

Right, so this doesn’t impact you, hence you’re not that concerned about getting the best policy through.

@Vict0ar

its not just the poor people tho. just about all middle class and upper middle class wage earners would benefit greatly from single payer system. it would be cheaper and would actually cover stuff that should be covered that isnt currently covered. ppl who think they have good insurance just dont realize that their insurance sucks and actually doesnt cover that really important thing.

Yeah, there are a lot of people who have good insurance relative to the average American, and don’t realize that’s still worse than M4A.

[eyebooger]

@anon38180840

Yeah, there are a lot of people who have good insurance relative to the average American, and don’t realize that’s still worse than M4A.

And many people who think that they have “good insurance” just means they haven’t been hard-core fucked over yet.

[microbet]

@anon24898493

probably not at a pace people on this forum will agree with.

I’ve never heard anyone say anything about the pace. Who ever said it was going to be easy and happen overnight? But there’s a big difference between actually moving things in a direction with an end goal vs. taking a step that may lead that way if that’s what the market decides.

[catfacemeowmers]

@anon24898493

Did Warren ever come out with her healthcare plan? If I was a betting man (I am actually) I would guess it will be a transition to single payer and probably not at a pace people on this forum will agree with.

This is the kind of compromise I’d be ok with though. At least it’s a concrete transition plan. Not “let’s do this other, shittier, plan and hope that people like it enough that we can have the single payer debate again in 10 years and see what happens”