Who cares if they can get passed now if they’re completely ineffective?
The only thing that happens when we advocate for bullshit half measures is that those half measures become the left boundary in the public policy debate and anything to the left of them is immediately discarded as unrealistic and extremist.
This, plus this left boundary gets averaged with the right boundary of “rocket launchers for all” and we end up with maybe thinking about getting bump stocks banned as a compromise.
I can’t believe your falling for this nonsense. Welp guys, an inconsequential Dem candidate proposed an actual good gun control policy, guess we can’t bring background checks up for a vote in the Senate. This is such BS. Do you actually buy into this? As far as I can see Mitch never had any intention of ever bringing background checks up for a vote. He has refused to bring the House bill up for a vote since it passed in February. But yeah, one guy polling in single digits in the other parties primary is somehow tying the hands on the Senate GOP.
Doing something half assed that gives the right cover to pretend that they did something is worse than nothing. Accepting half assed bandaid solutions to our very real problems are how we got to where we are now. The time to negotiate with these people is good and over. We win or we go home and the lies they are going to tell about us aren’t what we should be worrying about.
Obamacare was literally the rights own solution and look how the messaging around that went. We should fight on good ground and look for real wins. There are going to be a lot of battles between us and real wins because they aren’t easy, but reducing what we’re looking for is the road to hell paved in good intentions. We’ve tried it repeatedly and it’s gotten us to nowhere.
Honestly you’re demonstrating every problem I have with Pete ITT. Incrementalism’s window of viability is over. The healthcare system has already collapsed and isn’t in any way viable. Gun control has been stalled for so long that we should probably just go for repealing the 2nd amendment and be done with it. Climate change is now such a clear and present danger that we have to go to massive interventions immediately or we’re all fucked.
This is what happens when you don’t get anything meaningful done for decades… all the moderate options expire like old groceries. I used to agree with you on just about every point, but the window for those options closed. Now we have to go from 0-100 or we’re fucked.
Our goal here isn’t to get something done instantly. Our goal is to utterly destroy our political opponents and gain complete control over the government so we can implement real changes. The half assed stuff isn’t popular because it doesn’t actually fix anything and voters will punish us for doing it.
To be clear pain = political pressure. We aren’t trying to reduce the pain the public is feeling about our problems. Making healthcare slightly better is a good way to cause us to take more damage over time than the system just completing its collapse. Putting in some mediocre background checks on guns that reduces mass shootings totally ignores the fact that most of the gun deaths aren’t from mass shootings and takes pressure off to do something about the real problem. Passing some tiny climate change bill is just us pretending to do our part while ignoring the fact that it’s nowhere near enough and we’re running out of time.
Pain = we’re supposed to be learning something. We need to lean into the pain because there’s political gain to be had there. We’re trying to fix the problems at their cause not treat symptoms. Treating symptoms is how you stay sick for longer. We have to stop that now.
And just to add, their position sucks. Fuck the Dems for constantly being terrible on just about everything important. The non-terrible party should be unified in screaming fuck no you can’t have semi-automatic weapons. Nobody, nowhere, no way. Gun nuts get to have bolt action rifles, single action revolves, and a long barreled shot gun. Let that position become the base position in the democratic party and AR-15s will be way gone.
biden is leading in the polling nationally.
Warren gained a ton from Harris and Bernie’s collapses. Pete has risen a bit. everyone else is basically dead. You probably have a point with biden unlikely to gain from here but warren is starting to get capped herself unless others drop out.
Excellent post, but I’d like to focus in on this part. It’s helpful to remember why Trump got elected in the first place. It was thought that he’d blow up the status quo establishment. This is what Dems should be running on as well. Not just destroying political opponents, but the entire elitist system. This definitely means calling Biden out and fortunately, or unfortunately, it means calling Warren out on some things as well. I know I sound like a broken record, but I think Sanders and Yang are more anti-establishment than Warren and if not, they should demand she make her case
Citation needed.
He’s up 6 on RCP, he’s up on 538 if you scroll down and realize for every warren +2 there’s a biden + double digits.
This forum is absurd with total obliviousness sometimes to anything that doesn’t agree with their viewpoint.
[quote=“Cactus, post:3465, topic:68”]
I know I sound like a broken record, but I think Sanders and Yang are more anti-establishment than Warren and if not, they should demand she make her case.[/quote]
Yang is more establishment than Warren. For Bernie it’s close to a case by case thing. Warren is ok with a world where people doing ok continue to do ok. That’s called society. She just wants to broaden the amount of people who are doing ok.
Do you take the same view in climate change? Di you believe Democrats should prioritize bullshit bandaid policies that can be passed now over supporting substantive change?
While I probably oppose gun confiscation, I think it needs to be in the conversation to trigger the gun nuts.
Would you care to make an even money wager Biden vs Warren for the Dem nomination? Warren is at .46 on predictit and Biden is at .20. Thinking that Biden is ahead of Warren in the race is to not really understand what’s going on.
Biden is still the frontrunner, it’s true he and Warren were tied at one point last week basically, but now with the new polls he’s climbed back into a lead. Maybe you argue they are tied within margin of error, not sure. The reason Warren is such higher odds to win the nomination is because everyone knows that Biden’s base doesn’t really have any hope to build from where it started, he needed to maintain the core group he had and his foundation is already showing cracks. On the other hand, Warren’s support continues to grow and she has an inevitable endorsement from Sanders coming if/when he drops out, that would propel her even further ahead.
Why should I have to take the same view? Not every issue is the same.
If this forum is all about triggering the cons, then I guess I’m out. That’s what we hate about them, but now we’re going to try to do it? It helps nothing, because our side doesn’t think the same way as the right. Using their tactics isn’t going to work with our base because we are fundamentally different. That’s why the “burn it all down” approach appeals to a smaller part of our base than it does the Rs. I understand that many people on this forum refuse to believe that, but it’s true.
I think writing off die-hard Trump voters is fine. But i also think that we should NOT write off Obama/Trump voters, or independents. The thing about independents is that they aren’t necessarily “centrists”. They might be pro-choice gun-lovers who want to end forever wars but also like their union health care plan. Those are the people who won’t vote for someone who declares that they’re gonna take their guns. But they also dislike Trump. Why push them away with slamming door policies when we can welcome them to the right side of history?
The doctor told him to keep his arms elevated.
:rimshot:
You literally asked for a citation that Biden is ahead in national polls, something that you could have verified in like 5 seconds of googling. This is a goalpost shift. Come on.
What if policies are good or bad in their own right, independent of whether some hypothetical person who is stupid enough to vote Obama/Trump supports them?
Citation needed.
It’s obviosuly a semantic question on some level, but Yang is mainly an idiot outsider like Trump (though much smarter and with more interested in policy than Trump), while Warren wants to shake up the system by making a newer, better system. E.g., establishing the CFTB. Wall Street Bros and hedge fund managers are spooked by Warren, where as they are fine with or don’t care about Yang (perhaps because he’s a nonentity in the race).
