What is happening in this thread? Don’t check forum for an hour and another thread has gone full blown AIDS.
Of course M4A is way less likely under Biden. It’s weird how our resident anti-establishment thread hero always argues the establishment side of literally everything. Also weird how we all keep getting sucked into these back and forths over either nuance or arguing against such a clearly wrong point that it can hardly be ignored. It’s almost like it’s intentional tbh.
I have no idea. I have Nunn and his gimmick on ignore… but context suggests it’s suuuper weak.
What the fuck are you talking about.
If the GOP had maintained control of Congress, they would be more likely to pass legislation that their president included as a highlight of his platform rather than legislation that he explicitly ran against. The same can be said for dems and healthcare.
You seem to be arguing that unless a candidate is willing to veto their own party’s legislation on an issue, there is no reason to discuss it in a debate. Which totally ignores the obvious fact that the president’s position informs the type of legislation their party will push for.
There’s a reason it’s not called Pelosicare.
Probably should do the same for my own sanity. I have long suspected there is a second account. Am curious if we both think it’s the same poster haha.
IF IF IF man. Come on, let’s talk about what is possible now vs. what would have happened in the GOP would have retained control. They didn’t. They’re not winning the House in 2020. They’re probably not winning the WH in 2020, but they could. They will quite possibly retain the Senate. So, don’t put in an incredible false equivalence that has no basis in reality to what we’re discussing here and then get mad at me about it.
The reality is we’re in a detente. Nothing is changing until we have all three in the positive, or if we lose the House. If we lose the WH (but retain the House), we’re still in a detente until at least 2022, at which point we could lose the House. Trolly believes we won’t win the Senate in 2020. That’s a reasonable position, which means that healthcare reform is not getting through without GOP help, even if we keep the House and win the WH. And that will only happen if the filibuster is removed under a Warren or Mayor Pete presidency (it won’t be removed under a Sanders presidency).
And again, I said over and over that each candidate should have their say in their one question about healthcare, and none of the candidates should attack the other candidates plans (this would cover 24 minutes of the debate). They also should be pushing the message that Trump wants to take your pre-existing conditions coverage away, and will kill the ACA. No matter their differences in plans, every single plan being proposed is better than anything that will happen if we lose House, lose Senate, and Trump gets to stay.
You’re fucking trolling at this point. I’m done.
I’m not trolling at all, but I’m super duper happy to disengage with you.
oh shit, sorry, Beto has been sniping at Pete lately about a couple things. Beto took a stance at the last debate that yes, Democrats ARE coming to take your guns away…and Pete said that it was a distraction that fires up otherwise disengaged republicans. So years of us saying, “hey, we don’t want to take your guns, just pass background checks and red flag laws,” and republicans FINALLY coming around to those views to a tune of 80% of them agreeing just flies out the window and we’re back to people voting against us because “Dems are gonna take our guns!” And according to Beto…they’d be right.
I understand that everyone here wants AR-15s off the streets, but dammit, Beto, don’t tell em that. Can we just get stuff passed NOW rather than moving the goal posts again?
Note: all instances of “republicans” in this post refer to the voters, not the politicians
By the way, Gabby Giffords, Shannon Watts, and other gun control activist groups/leaders agree with Pete and most of the rest of the dem field does too.
Also, Pete is a fucking nerd with a whiteboard and I’m not ashamed to admit it’s part of the appeal.
https://twitter.com/PeteButtigieg/status/1183913846173569024?s=20
80% of Republicans May agree with background checks in principle, but none of them vote for background checks. That’s like issue 200 to them and all would be fine with the status quo forever. Refusing to even talk about doing the right thing for fear of riling up Republicans is monumentally cowardly bullshit. Can’t talk about ending segregation y’all Alabama might elect George Wallace.
i like the video, very creative. 2 issues with it tho:
bonus issue - using republican talking point about saying M4A raises taxes on the middle class. Yikes
Source of my claim. This states it better than I did. Also talks about the positions of all the major players in the gun safety world (Giffords, Moms Demand, etc). Note this brouhaha is about MANDATORY buybacks, aka confiscation. everyone supports voluntary buybacks.
More than a dozen progressive activists who attended the Giffords/March for Our Lives gun safety forum, which attracted nine presidential candidates on Wednesday, said in interviews they favored immediate action in Washington on issues where there is clearer consensus.
I think we can use obamacare as an example of what happens when democrats start with a compromise position and are then pushed to compromise further by bad faith Republicans. Fuck the talking points–Republicans were going to say that either way. I’d rather have someone advocating for a “far” position (i.e. the correct position) as some place we can compromise from and still get an outcome we can live with.
In short, I think beto pushing the conversation to “should we take away AR-15s” makes the chance of a livable gun control policy more likely, not less, though it might reduce the chance of some bullshit bandaid policy getting passed (which is a good thing).
lol how am I just hearing about this now?
https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/1184102635965685766?s=21
Anyone who thinks Warren isn’t the right person for the Democrats at this moment hasn’t been paying attention. She’s very competent and equally important she’s not a very nice person. Nice is basically the opposite of what we need right now. We don’t need some forgiving rise above it type. We need the kind of person who would talk about how some guy harassed her at his funeral.
She’s actively disliked (and feared!) by establishment politicians for a reason. I love her for that very same reason honestly. Their time has come and they’ve been worried she was going to bring that time to them since they first met her.
I suspect the dumbest take, which is not a hot take, is that Warren would be a bad candidate. That’s the view of people who try to always fight the last war, or the one before that.
Trump, to his advantage, was too dumb to fight the last war.
Yup. Warren coming into the general and talking about how crooked the whole system is and how she’s going to uproot it and improve everyone’s lives… yeah that’s going to go over REALLY well. It got Trump elected ffs. The establishment politicians are talking about her having an electability problem because if it was them being polled she would be very unelectable and they desperately want it to be true of the general population… but of course their approval ratings are half of Trumps IRL.
Right now it’s becoming increasingly likely that she’s the person who owns this moment in history. Obviously something could still happen that stops her, but her ascent doesn’t feel like it’s variance at all… it feels more like watching a winning player gradually win all the chips through skillful play.
Given that she’s already tied for first and continuing to win with plenty of time left to go it seems pretty likely that she crushes this primary like a tin can before doing the same only worse to Trump in the general.
Please imaginary sky fairy one fucking time.
We are within 4 months of the first primary so I would say polling now is starting to matter. The second most important thing in primaries to your current support is whether or not you are already at your ceiling or not. Warren very likely is not anywhere near her ceiling even though she is polling pretty much in the lead now. I think a lot of people are still not very high on her because of some combination of Fauxcohontas and the fact they haven’t been paying attention. Plus maybe some anti-Hillary leftover vibe as a casual may see Warren as somewhat of a proxy for Hillary even though we all know they are nothing alike.
Once people start paying attention I think she will run away with it. The only two other people with any realistic chance (Biden, Bernie) I think are much more known and therefore capped out almost in what their support can be. Also no one is going to listen to Joe Biden speak and think “man i can’t wait to vote for that guy”.
those bullshit bandaid policies are what all of the people in the conversation who matter actually want because they CAN get passed now.
Gun confiscation just slams the door that they have worked so hard to force open in the halls of public opinion.
The choice here is pass red flag laws and background checks and VOLUNTARY buybacks, or pass nothing because an irrelevant candidate starts screaming that we’re going to take your guns. I’m going with the first one every day, all day. And Warren, Sanders, Moms Demand, Gabby Giffords, et al, agree.