Gun violence, corruption, immigration, healthcare, minimum wage, whatever. The president has no power on healthcare, and that’s the point. By spending the kind of time you want on it, you’re practically begging whatever candidate wins to break their promise if that can’t get through.
What any voter with half a brain will know (and sorry, Ohio ain’t voting for any of these cats unless Trump becomes an absolute anathema to them) is that if you put Trump back in, there will be no ACA, and any plan he comes up with will be woefully inadequate. If you don’t put Trump back in, something even better than the ACA before it was gutted will happen, provided they get the Senate. If they don’t get the Senate, we’re just stuck with the ACA until we get the Senate.
And what you do if a Dem beats Trump is bombard the GOP Senate (if that stays as it quite probably could) with healthcare bills that are progressively worse for the GOP, and keep letting the public know that it’s the GOP holding up your healthcare reform. If you want what we’re proposing then you better vote them out in 2022 (when the map is very favorable for Dems). Bombarding the Senate with bills from the House is good now, but will be so much better with a Dem president than with Trump.
Seriously, does anyone even remember 2018? Republicans were too scared to even hold town halls in their home districts because they were overrun with angry-ass white Boomers screaming at them. I mean, WTF this shit is a thermonuclear political superweapon and the Democrats are going to scratch their nuts and chuff about Ukraine or NATO or some dumb shit.
2018 says something completely different than what you’re saying here. 2018 happened because people clearly saw that he was trying to destroy the ACA and they revolted against it. Once the Dems got the House, the ACA was safe from further tear downs. To improve it, Dems need the Senate.
You may be insulted by it, but the plain and simple fact is that every single one of these candidates will sign whatever gets out of Congress. Having the Dem candidates beat the eff out of each other over something that they have no control over is the problem. Spending huge amounts of time watching Biden act like an idiot over M4A doesn’t help anyone. Each candidate should say what they want, and then it becomes a ‘moving on’ moment. If we get Warren or Sanders, we’re more live for M4A, but we aren’t necessarily less live for M4A if Biden is elected. He’d sign that if Congress would pass it, and then claim he was for it all along.
[quote=“nunnehi, post:3418, topic:68, full:true”]if you put Trump back in, there will be no ACA.
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It’s so. fucking. simple. You will lose your healthcare if Trump wins. Your mom will not get care for her pre-existing conditions. Run on that. I’m repeating myself, but this was Obama’s signature issue and even Ohio voted for him twice.
At that moment, the GOP was trying to tear it down and almost had the votes to do it. With the Dems in the House (it was about getting Dems the House in 2018), there is a detente. If the Dems get the Senate, it can change, and not a moment sooner unless some GOP people get on board a Dem reform.
Yes, so why do you want to devote a full debate to Biden yelling at Warren, ‘BUT HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY FOR IT?’?
There should be a messaging that says when the healthcare question comes up say this:
‘You will lose your healthcare if Trump wins. Your mom will not get care for her pre-existing conditions. Your child will not get care for his/her pre-existing conditions. You will not get care for your pre-existing conditions. And you know you have one. When we win, and we have to win the Senate too, we will make your healthcare options better and you will have more money in your pocket at the end of the year. And you can take that to the bank.’
Disagree about there being a 0 percent chance of M4A under Biden. He would love being the guy who got M4A through if there is a public appetite for it. Remember, people making Biden the nominee isn’t about healthcare, it’s about beating Trump. Nothing else should be read from his nomination than that, and it certainly shouldn’t be thought that his policies are what people who vote for him want.
Then we’re in a detente if the Dems hold the House. Nothing will get done. Sounds like a waste of time to talk about it if you’re certain Dems can’t get the Senate.
If the House had a majority of Democrats who want M4A, do you think Joe would be, ‘I WAS ELECTED FOR MY PLAN, I’M NOT SIGNING THAT’? I know you don’t think that. Remember, this is not me advocating for Joe, this is me saying that he would absolutely sign M4A if it could pass both houses of Congress.
Okay, it’s not literally zero. But zero is within the margin of error.
With Biden the message from the presidency would be:
“Let’s get back to normalcy. I’ll be working with my Republican friends to think up a bunch of ideas that will get literally zero Republican votes.”
With Warren you might get:
“Hey Chuck, nuke the filibuster or I’ll endorse whoever your primary opponent is two years from now. Now start passing some good legislation or I’m whipping out my executive order pen.”
he’s throwing a hail mary to try to keep him in the race but all it’s doing is hurting the dem party, it’s playing into trump’s campaign of THEYRE ALL OUT TO GET US.
while also TKO’ing him from ever winning a senate race in texas.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make here. You made your point when you said we can’t get the Senate (I’m playing devil’s advocate here, because I don’t agree that the Senate is not in play). If we can’t get the Senate, we’re in a detente (if we keep House). Therefore, as long as we beat Trump we don’t lose healthcare. What does the infighting do for anyone?
Saying that every plan proposed here is better than what Trump will do to you is a message that allows time to be focused elsewhere, and that does not mean each candidate should not pose their own plans. It’s just that they should not fight each other over those plans.
Your scenario only works if Dems get the Senate. What do you think the chances of that happening are, because trolly doesn’t think that’s possible? And Biden will not have a bully pulpit. He’s gonna be along for the ride, and be like, ‘I saved us all from Trump’. Keep in mind that his chances of getting the nomination are in the single digits for me, so a lot of this is irrelevant speculation.
I think each candidate should talk about whatever they want on the stump. On the debate stage, I think going all in for as much healthcare talk as possible is wasted time. You can say what you need in a few minutes. If each candidate says the message you and I agree with, that’s 24 minutes devoted to it with no back and forth. Remember, Warren and Sanders aren’t yanking the a-holes who don’t want M4A down, it’s everyone trying to tear them down. That doesn’t help the cause.
Sure and I think hypothetical president Jeb! (Or Cruz or Pence or whoever) would sign legislation funding a border wall if it came across his desk. Nonetheless the border wall is drastically more likely under Trump.
