ah yes, the time for discussion has passed. Too bad.
You uncritically citing Trump as an authority on anything is kinda sad.
Not really an answer to what kind of claims youâll accept while youâve already preemptively thrown out any information from what you claim are mainstream sources.
It hasnât passed. You refuse to honestly participate. Like I get this game you do. You really just recycle bullshit I pulled 5+ years ago. Itâs pathetic.
look ikes those statements seem pretty similar to me. If you donât want to point out the difference you think is obvious, well, who cares. I donât care if I talk to you or not. Actually itâs better this way. Take it easy!
We didnât. This war has been going on for 8 years.
Thatâs true. Before the escalation I mean.
We didnât give them a bunch of weapons and money against their will, either. The people mewling about how this is all Americaâs fault and that the US is perpetuating it make it sound like the US is forcing them to fight Russia when they donât want to, rather than giving them the tools they need to succeed in their own efforts.
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I mean youâre right, we could have said âno, sorry Ukraine, weâll do nothing while the Russians try to wipe you out, just like we did last timeâ. But that would be morally problematic and strategically stupid. Just profoundly dumb, all morality aside.
You like realism, hereâs the realist case for supporting Ukraine now:
As long as we have a strategic interest in a Europe at peace, and in maintaining our military alliances, we have to keep Russia out of Poland. The most pragmatic way to do that is exactly what weâre doing now.
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Well my point is that if the US had never supported Ukraine at all in the first place or supported efforts to align it with the West then it would have played out very differently. I think it probably would have ended up like Belarus or something and there wouldnât have been a war. If they defied Russia without US support they would have gotten quickly crushed I would imagine.
Obviously this didnât happen and your sideâs view won out, weâre supporting Ukraine to the hilt and weâre going to get what looks like a long proxy war with Russia. Iâm not thrilled about this as I donât see how it serves US and Western interests and think that thereâs a remote but real possibility it leads to a nuclear war. Because now Russia is fighting an intense proxy war with the US that Russia canât afford to lose. And the US sure wonât back down either. So where does this lead? I donât know but some of the outcomes are frightening.
and if nato supported ukraine before putin could engage with tanks, ukraine would have played out like poland. hmmm⌠poland or belarus. tough choice.
Russia can afford to lose.
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putinâs offramp is facing a 3-day war by natoâs eastern flank only and retreating having lost to the big and powerful nato, rather than to the lowly ukrainian farmers and miners.
Yes. Almost. There wouldnât have been a war as such â in Ukraine. Russia would have rolled through Ukraine and Moldova, and in a couple years we would have had to decide whether to abandon our interests in Europe or go to war with Russia in Poland. So itâs not like peace is even a choice here. Rather, it is a choice, but the medium and long term consequences are even worse.
Yeah for sure. But look, the choice is war today, or genocide today and war tomorrow. At least if we can contain it to Ukraine there is a lower risk of nukes than if itâs US troops defending Poland.
The US isnât the only country giving Ukraine weapons. Not even a majority of the weapons. Ukraine would get plenty of help if the US gave nothing.
How many of those countries would be giving Ukraine weapons without Bidenâs leadership?
All of them, particularly because in a world where the US gives nothing, Trump is the President. The bill passed the House with over 400 yes votes.
Definitely hard not to say a bunch of ban-worthy things regarding Vâs contention that the persecution of Uyghurs and other Xinjiang minorities is a New York Times and WaPo fiction.
Iâd ask two Uyghurs I got to know fairly well at the high school I was teaching at in 2015 (I was warned to be careful about conversation topics by my boss when she saw Iâd regularly sit with the Xinjiang students at lunch), but they disappeared from Wechat in late 2017. Knowing what I know of the situation, for their sake I donât dare try to make any contact with them.*
As has been pointed out time and again, the evidence has come almost exclusively from accounts from Uyghurs/Kazakhs/Kyrgyzs and even Han with roots in Xinjiang that have been corroborated by PRC govât documents (with authenticity that hasnât even been denied).
Communist Party of India? Woke.
Victor? An absolute fucking moron.
*My sake as wellâŚIâve said/done enough to get permaâd from PRC and I donât need some party security bureaucrat digging into who I am. I do hope to one day see my wife and her family again.
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The propaganda about the Uyghurs probably works the other way. You hardly hear anything about it from the mainstream media because the economic ties with China are so huge. People are talking about China = Nazi right now (the Australian Defense minister just said something to that effect), but theyâre specifically talking about things where US and close Western Alliesâ interests are at odds with what China is doing (military assistance to The Solomon Islands in this case). They arenât talking about the slave labor that makes half the products we use. Some notice is given of labor issues and some of that is used as a vague âChina Badâ message to support things like US tariffs that protect some of our industry, but the big picture is that we need that slave labor and information about it is sidelined, like it is about places like Yemen. Itâs probably worse than anything we hear about.
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