Be like me and have your wife make 6x your salary! Also no kids
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That scammer is almost specifically who I was thinking of when I said I hate savings forward financial advice. Yeah obviously you can have pathological spending problems, but the reason people are poor and in debt is because they don’t make enough money. If you have financial problems and make less than a bare minimum of thirty dollars an hour you don’t have a spending problem you have an income problem.
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I just read the entire PDF… wow.
I’m just kind of stunned that GS hasn’t figured out that this isn’t the best way to operate. There’s 0% chance that any net productivity is created past the 55th-60th hour of actual work these staffers are doing… which means that the only reason they are doing it is to shorten turnaround time on small projects… which is a pure planning problem.
This isn’t even a ‘it’s immoral to treat your staff like this’ spot. This is an ‘it’s ineffective to treat your staff like this’ spot. They could be getting better results on almost every piece of work flowing through their offices if they changed.
The people demanding the work get off on knowing they can abuse people. Wall Street is an awful, incredibly toxic place. And once you put in those 100 hour weeks for a few years your moral compass disappears and you’ll do anything for money, because fuck if you endured that to not be rich.
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There’s also an element of “I suffered through 100 hour weeks to make VP so the next generation should too”.
If you see it as conditioning it makes more sense actually. I have always been stunned by just how fucked up GS is willing to go to make a buck.
Stupid question, but is this 100 hours of work or “work”?
Like what is a normal day like for these people?
I think the reality is they have to get there at like 9am but sit around bullshitting for most of the day, then get assignments for their bosses meetings the next day and are expected to work all night.
This is how it was 15 years ago when I had friends doing it, not sure if it’s still true.
The obvious “fix,” if they actually cared, would be to just hire more analysts.
Looks pretty similar to what medicine is during residency, especially in surgical programs.
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My wife’s sister is in her last year and it sounded terrible. Recently her schedule has lightened up a bit but as someone used to working 8-9 hours a day i would still hate my life if I was working her hours.
You’re also basically making minimum wage if you consider the hours, i think she was making around $50k when she started residency. At least the GS people are making decent money (I think?)
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It’s not so bad for EM, we got limited to 60 hours a week while doing rotations in the ED. That’s because there’s less down time during an ER shift and you have to be able to make snap decisions and perform emergent procedures.
Limits for other residencies are 80 hours a week, and surgical specialties like General Surgery, Neurosurgery, Orthopedics, OBGYN and more are all known for flouting the 80 hour per week rule. Typical resident gets paid 15-25 bucks per hour depending on where they live and their level. NYC/SF/LA residents get paid more than residents in Iowa, someone 5 years out of med school gets paid more than someone 2 years out, etc.
Pay off is good at the end but man those surgical residencies can be 7 years of that lifestyle. It’s horrendous and the main reason why I didn’t seriously consider to go into any surgery specialty despite loving it in the OR.
So obviously no company should treat their employees that way and I know this might be “victim” blaming but if you can get a job at GS, you can very likely find a job at a place that doesn’t treat you like that.
Similar to any attorney that takes a job in BigLaw. You absolutely know what you’re signing up for at this point in history. My empathy for you is pretty close to 0.
Well, kind of. Young people just starting out probably know that it’s long hours, but they might be naive enough to think its 100 hours of interesting work as opposed to updating PowerPoint slides at 3 in the morning while having an anxiety attack.
It’s abusive. I’ve seen several people I personally know transform from relatively normal people into dead eyed psychos after a few years in investment banking, which I think is the whole point of this insanity.
A hospital can’t just hire more residents, but a bank sure as hell can hire more kids from Harvard.
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I just listened to an audio book about sleep and how medical people fucking up is the third leading killer in the US. A lot of that is due to lack of sleep and irregular sleep schedules.
I’m not saying it’s not abusive. It absolutely is. Maybe I’m just expecting too much out of a 21 year old Ivy League kid to recognize what they’re getting into. I’m sure if I was offered that opportunity at 21 I would have jumped at it, all the warnings be damned.
My frame of reference was people I knew that would complain about trying to hit their billable hours (knowing full well before they signed up what was expected). But then again there’s likely a huge difference between 21 year old college senior and late 20s LS graduate.
Typing this out has tempered my disdain and increased my empathy a bit. What’s clouded my judgment I think is that the folks I knew in those jobs were assholes before they took those jobs.
She is OBGYN and defintely was 80 hours or more per week at times. I think she wants to do surgery which requires an extra year or two after residency, might be called a fellowship?
All obgyns are qualified to do a bunch of surgeries. If they’re doing a fellowship, it means they’re specializing in something more specific like urogyn or maternal fetal medicine. Means they’ll have at least two more years before getting the big pay day
Peds surgery requires a 5 year general surgery residency and 2 year fellowship.
You also typically get paid less as a peds surgeon I believe compared to an adult gen surgeon. (I believe, not 100%. Kids are usually covered by medicaid more which has lower reimbursement rates)