Yeaaa gonna need a cite for that one
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Drone strikes are horrible. They apparently improved quite a bit in terms of accuracy during Obama’s presidency. But he gave the drunk CIA the keys to a fast sports car. He was negligent for sure and deserves rebuke. The drones also limited the extent of soldiers on the ground being subjected to death. It’s morally questionable at best but it is not unequivocally evil.
He NEVER intentionally targeted civilians.
I think he supports drone strikes. Not a good man.
He’s also not an idiot and wouldn’t equate Obama or Bush with Hitler, like some (most?) here.
We prop up Saudi Arabia today. Let’s maybe stop pretending like we’re the good guys while we drink our Starbucks on our stolen land lol.
Also our criminal justice system is a real thing. Such a hypocrite lol.
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It’s like you and brons are trying to one-up each other in bad posting. I’m gonna take a break, wake me up when the outrageous hyperboles and lies are done.
Oh my god “stolen land” guy is here to remind us of our iniquity from 400 years ago. Yes that was fucking terrible and we shouldn’t have done it. We aren’t literally war criminals today because of it.
Did you not read Microbet’s post? He said Obama should be indicted on 100 war crimes.
Seven (!!!) people liked it!
I don’t think he was being hyperbolic, the poor lad just can’t help himself.
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130 years ago is when it finished. Then we ran all the Mexican landowners off their land at gunpoint along the border… and we’ve been busy doing some awful thing pretty much continuously ever since. Which brings us to the 2 million plus people in cages in the present day as is Saudi Arabia, who are the actual people who financed 9/11. Dude just stop.
The Philippines, Jim Crow, the labor wars, Vietnam, the prison industrial complex, Cambodia, the list goes on as far as you want it to go lol.
We. Are. Not. The. Good. Guys.
Which is fine because there are no good guys. Which is why nationalism is fucking dumb.
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And Sanders position on drones is pretty much in line with Obama’s so not sure how you’re getting to “happy to vote for Bernie” from “Obama should be tried in the Hague” other than self delusion.
Okay, 2 million people in cages is much closer to actual intentional criminal acts then anything Obama did. Not a war crime tho. Not Hitler either.
This absurd apologism needs to be tethered to reality or you give the horrendous term “virtue signal” oxygen.
1850s war we also did slavery then. Arc of moral universe tho.
What are the chances that Pelosi sends the articles over, Mitch starts the trial and disallows witnesses, and Pelosi snap subponeas Bolton?
I figure this is pretty low but man that would be amazing.
Most people seem to think Bolton doesn’t want to testify in the house but why would he care? He’s going to do one of three things:
- Confirm TRUMP was pulling all the strings and is as guilty as we all know he is
- Throw Rudy under the bus
- claim it’s all fake news
for any of those three goals, testifying in the house is just as good as the senate. And testifying anywhere is better than testifying nowhere if all he cares about is selling books.
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[quote=“jman220, post:3943, topic:699”]Holding onto them does weaken the dems argument that this was an urgent matter that needed to be taken care of immediately.
[/quote]
If the trial were actually going to be conducted by a body that was even halfway plausibly impartial, sure. But it’s not.
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Yeah its pretty easy to counter the whole " if its so urgent why didn’t they sent the articles of impeachment right away " with it is urgent but they didn’t send them because the senate jurors literally said on live TV they would not be impartial and would not hear any evidence.
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So powerful. 45 seconds with a sawzall tho…
I still think the best option is to send article 1 over and hold back article 2.
How does this help? If Mitch is changing the rules so that they have to be sent over in 25 days or whatever, then the second will just lapse and get dismissed.
The house should pass a rule that impeachment articles are automatically renewed every three weeks if not sent to the Senate.
Anyone can play that stupid republican game. But if the democrats refuse to play they will continually lose in the bigger picture.
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George Washington, James Madison, and Ulysses S. Grant owned slaves. That immediately stops you from being a good person.
Al-awlaki’s son was a civilian and a 16 year old boy at that. The “targeted killing” program under Obama targeted people without a trial of any kind. Whether they were terrorists or not is unknown to us.
As for targeting innocents:
And of course a claim from the man himself:
The whole didn’t targer civilians thing is complete bullshit. They targeted terrorists well aware of who was around them and decided that the civilian deaths were worth the deaths of the terrorists in question.
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Eh I think there is something to be said about the times people lived in. Like pretty much all the Romans owned slaves. Even the lower middle class ones. It was just a way of life. Unless we’re gonna assume there were 0 good in the roman days I think it’d more depend on how you treated them back then.
I’m sure at some point in the future someone will be somewhere arguing we we’re all pieces of shit for using technology that came from essentially slaves in China and mined in places like Africa etc. And they kinda aren’t wrong but at the same time sometimes with the way society is built its super hard to avoid.
But yeah by Washingtons time it was pretty well accepted that owning slaves was immoral so I’ll agree with you on those three.
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