This digression started when PocketChads said that Biden was worse than Trump.
Oh wait, that’s not how it started. Maybe if people could just react to criticisms of the Democrats with “yeah, that is awful” instead of “Trump is worse” this would be a shorter conversation.
That sure seems to be what you’re implying with this sequence of posts. I’m not the only one ITT who’s reading it this way.
The point is that Dems will bury their heads in the sand if Biden is POTUS.
Ok maybe but there will still be measurably less harm going on. That’s the entire point of this months long debate we have all been having.
Again, this digression started because some of you can not abide criticism of a Democrat. I don’t think that’s going to magically change if Biden gets elected.
I’m not real life mad, but kind of internet mad about this post.
This is completely false and you know it micro.
Nobody has an issue with critiquing Dems. We all do it. Even us supposed evil “centrists”. What we cannot abide are factually incorrect takes about how Dems and Republicans are the same or Dems are even worse.
This is the same pushback we would give a climate denier who was peddling faith over facts.
I think this is the kind of thing that @Vict0ar is talking about when he says he’s more worried about being put in a camp by liberals. The knees jerk so quickly to “That’s Trumpkin thinking” or “obviously you think Trump is better” iow “now you’re the enemy”. Very culty.
I mean, I post some God Damned FACTS and Trolly put me in the camp saying Trump > Biden. And I post some God Damned FACTS and you’re comparing me to a climate denier.
That’s not what happened. Neither PocketChads nor anyone else said Dems and Republicans are the same, yet here we are.
Micro, anecdotally I will be way more aware of ICE policies under Bidens admin then I was under Obama’s. Trump has woken up a huge number of people who will now advocate for immigrants and protest inhumanity. EDems may bury their heads in the sand, but the population as a whole will (hopefully) continue to be outraged and demand action.
Also, burying your head in the sand over an action that is N bad is still better than not burying your head but not doing anything meaningful to stop an action that is N*10 bad. Obviously the solution to the current problem is not “make it less bad and call it a day”, but we absolutely have to start with “make it less bad” before we can have any hope of making it perfect.
The Democrats are explicitly going to be campaigning on immigration reform and “keeping immigrant families together” tonight and will have an undocumented person speaking. If Biden’s ICE is no different from Obama’s’ ICE, there will at least be an angle that Biden has broken campaign promises. If Republicans are smart, they will find a way to highlight this in an attempt to depress future Democratic votes.
To be clear, I don’t think kids in cages is in my top five issues that I care about the most. I am willing to accept a loss on that front in exchange for winning on bigger priorities.
If you’re not voting for Biden over Trump, you kind of are saying that they are the same, aren’t you?
This is the absolute final baseline and most important point, at least for me.
If someone says they are voting Biden then I say bring on any amount of critique, pressure or action they can muster to shift the political winds. There is no limit.
If you are not voting you are saying they are the same.
I doubt it.
It doesn’t seem like that’s what happened other times when Republicans left office and were followed by Democrats. Like GHWB’s Gulf War caused a shit load of outrage and was probably worse than the years of crippling murderous sanctions and sporatic bombing under Clinton, sure, but there were zero large protests for that. And of course GWB was worse in a million ways than Obama, but no one was like, let’s complain about Libya - no, they defended it.
No, by and large, Democrats - the vast majority of Democrats - will defend whatever Biden does.
I made a point we would be less evil, but still evil…
Bolton’s not voting for either, either. And he’s a cool guy who definitely cares about kids in cages.
And that’s true.
People here call out centrist Dems for their BS all the time.
First the answer is no. Second, who are you talking to? Me? I never said I’m not casting my absolutely meaningless vote for Biden.
This is true, sure. And if it’s coming from some other centrist Dem the centrist Dems around here don’t necessarily have a defensive shit fit, but if PocketChads says something about how it will still be bad if Biden wins they are out in force.