I don’t think it is blatantly obvious which path is correct. I can understand how reasonable, intelligent, well-meaning people can have different ideas about health care reform.
It’s possible we don’t get universal health care until M4A polls better than a public option. We are not there yet. Does incremental change move us closer to that point?
I mean, covering everyone only costs way more money when the government isn’t the only buyer. Strip out the hundreds of billions of dollars in insurer profits and another couple hundred billion in claims denying paper pushers and costs look a lot better overnight.
So you think the studies showing it will cost us less than we are now spending are wrong. Ok.
I think it could move us away from single payer if enough people get comfy with a new system. I got mine is a strong thing in America and not just with reps.
There are a lot of people who dont like the system now. Strike while the iron is hot.
It’s not that M4A costs “us” more than the status quo, it’s that it will clearly cost the government far more. Fearing the unintended consequences of overhauling that much of the economy is legitimate.
No, it isn’t
Some studies show it will cost the government less.
No, Vermont passed a single payer bill and the governor unilaterally nixed it before it was ever implemented, saying the increased taxes would cause an economic shock.
Single payer is much more expensive at the state level. It’s all or nothing IMO.
Vermonter here. No.
Basically this. After it was passed, there was a solid combination of fervent opposition and Democratic incompetence.
I don’t think anyone on UP cares deeply about Joe Biden’s personal reputation except maybe @iron81 (our resident Centrist Champion). It’s more about understanding one’s enemy - don’t forget that because Biden is just the representation of eDem centrism, his perspective and views are going to continue to be advanced. Understanding the position of those people is critical to arguing against them. This is actually something that Bernie failed on in terms of messaging this year - it’s absolutely nuts that he didn’t ram home over and over again that UHC saves people money. The centrists (and the moderators, for God’s sake) cornered Bernie into “admitting” that taxes would need to go up. Biden and his industry supporters may not be persuadable but some voters are absolutely in the bucket of wanting UHC but being afraid of the cost. It’s really important that the left wing of the Dems sharpen their pencils on this message and go on the offensive.
He’s just using that for multitabling. The Dr Who contraption in the center is where all the magic happens.
The idea single payer costs more forgets in places we have if we pay higher taxes.
It is basically impossible to get people to understand the main reason they aren’t getting raises is exploding health care costs.
The average employer health care plan for a family of 4 costs the employer like $20k per year. That would otherwise be wages! You can pay a way higher tax rate and not get to 20k more in taxes unless you make a really lot of money!
*yes I know wages are taxable and health benefits aren’t, the point stands
I wonder how fast things would change if the employer instead gave you that money as pay, but you had to write a check out to X Health Insurance Company every month to the tune of like $1,500.
The fact that it is just never seen by people is a big part of the problem.
Yeah all of a sudden “Your taxes will go up by $1,000 a month but you won’t pay premiums,” would sound pretty damn great.
multiple people telling me no then literally saying because it cost too much okay…
I think a shit ton of people still pay less than this through work. That won’t fly at all for them.
It certainly needs to be thought out. Considering that the US government came up with billions at a moment’s notice for Covid suggests that there is more capacity in the Federal government spending than they likely let on.
Obamacare was an improvement on the previous status quo because it required insurers to pay out 80% of premiums towards care.
Insurers existence is predicated on their ability to convert each and every one of our health care dollar bills into 80 cents.
Biden, and every politician for that matter, either knows this or is a fool.
Every time they act like they don’t know, they are bullshitting. Even when Sloppy Joe is nice to a kid with a stutter, he knows this.
What do you call a person that is nice to a random kid, but his fulltime job is pretending he don’t know how math works so United Healthcare’s stock can go up? A psychopathic asshole