The cops are the murderers
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Maybe we can compromise by firing them all and then restarting with new hiring standards and accountability?
The current ones are WAY too fucked up to fix.
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I am not opposed to this idea.
Do you think our criminal justice system deters murders and other violent crime at all?
Literally re-forming. Sure, that could work.
Stanning for Greenwald while he tries to make Hunter Biden the next Benghazi?
What the actual fuck is even this thread holy shit
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I think it causes a net increase of murders and other violent crime.
Of course they would. I’m not saying our policing and incarceration system is good or just or shouldn’t be greatly improved. But even a country with a “good” incarceration system like Norway has police. When you guys say abolish – literally abolish – police I have no idea what the hell kind of system you’re advocating for. Simple questions like what the hell do you do if someone is going around murdering people in abolish-police-ville get ignored.
How do you explain this research then?
That’s a bad cite as little of it is relevant. So, where does it suggest that the criminal justice system (all of it - including prisons) decreases murder and violence (Not all crime. Most crime is property crime and many “crimes” aren’t even doing anything wrong at all.)?
hell of a lot better than your cite
That’s a terrible point and I do think a terrible cite is worse than none.
eta: Ok here’s my cite.
eta: that’s still better than an irrelevant cite that is also misleadling.
I dunno man, I think that studies showing that increasing the number of cops in a place leads to lower crime rates is pretty relevant to you saying that police increase violent crime. It directly contradicts what you’re saying. If police increase crime you’d expect to see more crime as you add more police.
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I didn’t even say that. So now you’re changing what I said to better suit your argument.
I mean you didn’t really say anything. Just that if we didn’t have police or courts or prisons we would have less violent crime than we do now. But now you’re saying the police deter crime but the prisons don’t?
Seems like some folks need to watch The Wire (Season 3) again.
And of course you’re still talking about all crime, which includes drugs, prostitution and other similar crimes as well as shoplifting, vandalism and other minor property crimes. Violent offenses make up less than 5% of arrests, so any decrease in other crimes could easily swamp an increase in violent crime or it could just be like I was getting at, that any deterrence of voilent crimes is more than made up for by other parts of the justice system that increase it.
From that irrelevant cite you didn’t read:
A larger historical survey by Aaron Chalfin and Justin McCrary looked at a large set of police and crime data for midsize to large cities from 1960 to 2010 and concluded that every $1 spent on extra policing generates about $1.63 in social benefits, primarily through fewer murders.
Mostly prisons, but not just. I’m saying the system as a whole increases violent crime. I think that any violence we avoid because of the time that some violent people are in prison or deterrence is more than made up for by the effect that the criminal justice system (all of it) has on society. Many people are poorer, more desperate, have fewer options and trained in and to be violent because of the system as a whole. And like JT said, that doesn’t even count the violence by the state.
Property crime/theft is another matter. There are certainly ways in which the criminal “justice” system increases it, but perhaps the deterrent effect is strong enough that it is decreased on the whole.
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