I don’t think so:
Meanwhile armed checkpoints were established on the three main roads coming in to town.
Today, five years later, those checkpoints still exist. They are guarded by members of the Ronda Comunitaria - a militia or local police force made up of men and women from Cheran. Every vehicle is stopped, its occupants questioned about where they have come from and where they are going.
I agree that it increases violent crime compared to if we transplanted Norway’s criminal justice system here. But that would be “reform” and is thus a no go. And Norway still has police and arrests and courts and prison. If someone murders someone else in Norway you call the police and they get arrested. How does it work in a society that abolishes the police?
Egregious bad faith.
/s
how so?
PocketChads is telling you. 40% of murders don’t lead to arrest and less than 25% of murders are by strangers, so it’s not like police are solving some big mysteries that can’t be dealt with without crime labs and in ways that don’t breed more crime.
But, I didn’t suggest there wasn’t an alternative whether it’s Norway, Zapatista, or nothing, just that our justice system as it is increases violence and murder. Norway is irrelevant to that. You keep trying to change the argument and it’s not like I made some proposal. I just made a very simple assertion.
eta: And you were talking about more cops and now you’re talking about Norway. You are coming up with plans left and right, they aren’t consistent, and they are non-responsive.
those armed checkpoints are on the perimeter to keep cartel members and other criminals from getting into the community. iirc from watching a few videos I don’t think those same armed guards go around harassing or “policing” the inhabitants of the community and they have something different set up inside the community
You did make a proposal: abolish the police. While scoffing at my proposal of reforming the police, and refusing to even begin to talk about wtf you mean by abolishing the police.
You don’t say.
A gated community as it were.
Unless there’s some other strand in this conversation I’m missing, I said exactly this:
where “it” was clearly the US Criminal Justice System as it presently exists.
That’s what I said. If I want to scoff at your reform proposal, I will, but it will be with a different argument.
sure, I guess the US is a big gated community made out of many gated communities and the whole world is just a big gated community if you think about it
I believe it is productive to clarify that policing wasn’t abolished in the community you claimed it was. It was, however, successfully transformed; reformed, if you will.
Neighborhood watch.
Upthread you said
So I took this to be more or less saying abolish the police. If you don’t actually mean that, then fine.
You engaged me on something else and just keep walking on to other subjects. I referred you to PC. He’s talking about that now. If you want to talk to me about it, I dunno, I feel like we need to resolve what I actually said and whether or not you think anything you said was responsive to that before moving on. You want to put microbet: 1 SenorKeeed: 0 up on the scoreboard?
So frustrating. Can people follow conversations around here? Do I have to restate every conversation (I said this to X, then Y said this to me, then you said Z to me, then I said whatever to you) every time??? It’s hopeless.
Was that me talking to you in this conversation? (eta: shit, that was two days ago.)
You say I’m wrong when I say that the criminal justice system in the US as it is increases violent crime in the US. That’s the conversation we’re having now.
Like my eta says, shit, that was two days ago. It’s not what we were just talking about.
OK, I agree, that’s why the system needs to be reformed.
In the US, both reform and abolition are just a fantasy. As has been pointed out many times, we’ve been “reforming” for decades and decades. It’s BS. All that’s true and correct is to assert that it’s a shit show that makes things worse.
