A 1% move on FOMC day is pretty tame all things considered
Can someone help me out with a debate I had earlier today? I was under the impression that the economy was in tatters from Covid when Biden took office and that since then, the stock market is up, unemployment is down, and that granted, inflation is higher, but that wages increased compared to inflation
Of course, this is a conservative Republican but I just want to know if he’s right that Biden inherited a great economy only to mess it up. I’d appreciate any positive talking points I could counter with
This should be your response
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I’ll admit I get triggered every time someone thinks they’ve checkmated EMH by pointing out that volatility exists.
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Unfortunately, it’s live and my face don’t do that
But seriously… I get that it wasn’t entirely Trump’s fault (other than grossly mishandling the pandemic), but every metric I can look up was worse in January 2021 than now…
Inflation 9.2% vs 2.5% now
Unemployment 6.3% vs 4.2%
Dow 30,932 vs 41,503
Gas of course, was a lot cheaper, but consumption was way down due to Covid
He told me if we can’t agree on facts, there’s no point in discussing it. Is what I listed above non facts? Or is there something more that I’m not taking into consideration? I even think our oil production is higher today than it was in 2021
By what measure did Biden inherit a better economy than we have now?
Edit: I’m sure he’ll say that interest rates being lower meant a better economy
Why are you doing the homework? Why does he think the economy was better in 2021 than it is now? Then ask him how tariffs work. Then ask him how many people lost their job during the Hoover administration. Then eat an ice cream cone and drop it on his shoe as you strut away.
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Idk I’m not knowledgeable about economics. He specifically thinks that Biden inherited a “perfect economy” (his words). He also says Biden made a mess. He’s not an idiot. He’s got a lot more money than me. I’m just trying to figure out if he has any reasonable grounds to think this
You don’t need to be that knowledgeable, you need to understand his facts so you can speak to them.
This man is not worth your time. He is both wrong enough and confident enough about it to make me sure you should just exit the conversation and avoid him in the future.
Seriously calling the economy in January 2021 perfect is insane, ask him perfect how? Wages? Growth? Employment? Asset Values? Inflation? GDP Per Capita? Consumer confidence?
A perfect economy doesn’t exist, at least not one that would be perfect for everyone.
Let me ask you this:
Do you think that someone who loves Trump so much as to impersonate him (“perfect economy”) could ever be persuaded that they have been deceived?
Just spit in their stupid racist ignorant face (or just shoot them if you live in Texas) and go on with your life unconcerned with the unhinged ramblings of the mentally ill.
This is what I’m asking… I don’t get how these are subjective truths. I’m trying to be objective. Unemployment is either better or worse now than in 2021. Gas prices were either lower then or not. Etc., etc.
Obviously, some things were better, some worse. But we should be able to at least agree on what’s what. And then we can use subjective analysis to assign what weight to give to what. Maybe lower interest rates are more important to those looking to buy a house. Maybe gas prices are less important to someone who’s out of work and can’t find a job, etc.
Edit: But my overall contention is that the economy was in a recession back then and isn’t now
Everyone who is telling you that it is not worth your time is correct.
Having said that, I can’t help myself in these spots and I go all out.
I think the winning approach is basically “sealioning” him + insulting his inability to substantiate his claims. It’s not really that given the nature of your positions, but it’s the same technique.
When he says it’s better ask him for a specific thing that is better. Ask him for a link to a source. When he gets it to you debunk it. Rinse and repeat. If he won’t give it to you, then claim victory. Be polite but derisive. Eventually he will give up. That’s the best you can do. You’re not changing his mind.
I have to be a little careful with the insults cuz he’s my boss lol
I’m pretty sure he’d say Biden shut down a pipeline here, but allowed one in Russia? Gas was cheaper, interest rates were lower, taxes were lower (Harris wants to raise taxes on the wealthy)
He’s really not a Trumper in the literal sense. He agrees Trump is a narcissistic asshole. But he HATES Biden and Democratic policies. He votes Trump purely because of policy
how much money someone has has almost nothing to do with intelligence.
Covid was a complete black swan, comparing the covid economy to any other point in time is really a fools game. especially with Trumpers who are just going to give him all the credit for the good things (remember when gas was 1.50 a gallon!) and blame all the bad things on Covid and say it was all caused by the globalists.
Well, that takes all the fun out of it.
Let’s just do one of these as an example.
Well, yeah look at all the pollution and contaminated drinking water we avoided. You want that shit? Why?
At some point he’ll probably say it would have reduced gas prices.
Then you hit him with shit like this:
If he starts engaging you then you’re just going to have to roll your sleeves up and debunk (i.e. find relevant sources like the Keystone one above). If he doesn’t, then that’s when you criticize his lack of substance.
If he says “Well, if we can’t agree on the facts, …”, You say stuff like “Obviously, we can’t agree on the facts if you don’t know what they are…” You know, just standard politard shitposting.
Just keep politely sealioning him from the higher ground on each and every point.
As previously mentioned, this is a useless waste of time. He’s not changing his mind. He will probably also hate you. But if it amuses you, that’s how I’d recommend doing it.
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The policy is racism.
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Gas prices!
Maybe he means that Trump appointed Powell, thereby preemptively saving the economy from the disasters that he would later produce
Apparently there’s an opinion piece by Eugene Scalia about how the economy was roaring when Trump left office. Unfortunately, my WSJ subscription expired and I don’t want to renew it, so I guess I’ll never know