One time when I was getting my teeth cleaned I could hear what sounded like a pre-teen girl in the next room crying, pleading, screaming, etc., along with the voices of numerous adults. My hygienist hinted that the girl was autistic.
Of course it sucked to have to listen to all of this while having to endure my own cleaning, but I’m not going to blame her parents for exposing me to her daughter’s tantrum.
Parents of kids screaming in public are obliged to take reasonable steps to end the screaming, with the understanding that the actions may not be successful. Of course, they usually do this. The vast majority of parents hate it when their kid is upset.
Example: infant on the bus is crying because they’re hungry. Parent has formula. Parent is obliged to give kid the formula.
I would agree with that.
I’m interested in trying to understand some principles for what is okay/not okay.
It seems that often parents are just like “this is really difficult, what else are you going to do”. But that wouldnt be a justification for behavior that impacts others without further examination in other circumstances. It tends to fly here just because so many parents are like “ugh. Yeah”
So. Maybe we should look at what would happen if a “rule” against a behaviour was implemented. And by rule, I just mean something being okay/not okay. Obviously you wouldnt legislate or enforce this stuff.
If kids crying on buses, at doctors or dentists, in planes, or at the supermarket wasnt okay. Then that basically means parents and kids cant live, travel, eat, etc.
I’m not sure haircuts are in this category. If the parent of the toddler avoided the situation or ended it when it was obviously going wrong, what’s the impact?
They cut the hair at home? Or find a kids barber, or just skip that haircut until next time?
Toddlers suck is my takeaway from recent conversation itt.
Toddlers are like drunk friends when you’re the sober one.
I’m a little flustered by this post. Parents with little children get to participate in society too is really the principal in play here
I am 100% on the side of “let’s default to empathy for parents of young kids, it’s a tough assignment, cut them some slack”, but people with little kids can participate in society while still refraining from doing some things if it’s going to be particularly rough on other people. I don’t see why @Rugby 's question isn’t a fair one. Some shared spaces are fair game for small kids and some aren’t. I don’t think there are prescriptive conditions, it’ll all just come down to norms. Kids on a plane can be annoying but sometimes practically they’ve just got to be there. Kids at a play can be annoying and parents just shouldn’t take them there if they can’t sit still and be quiet. This stuff doesn’t seem terribly controversial to me.
Mosdef has covered it well. And to be fair. I explained in my first post to you. Theres clearly some stuff that’s okay, and some stuff that’s not okay. I’m interested in trying to find that line.
Im guessing you either arent, or you dont think theres a line. Either way, if that’s the case I dont see we will get anything out of discussion.
Sure, that makes sense. I have a lot of sympathy for the parents (and for our boy Rugby) because if the kid needs a haircut you’ve got to do something. Maybe I’d try to talk to the barber and ask if they could open 30 minutes early or stay late and cut my kid’s hair when there’s no one else around and explain why, and then tip them like 100%.
I think you have something here, but I think it also needs some measure of how essential something is. Parents and toddlers dont need to attend a play or a fancy restaurant. They probably do need to fly, go to the doctors, etc. Haircut somewhere in the middle.
Anyway. By your rule. If the barbers has a good enough ambiance and people go to have a chat and enjoy their beard trim, does that change the equation?
Why do they have to find a kids barber? Why can’t you find an adults-only barber?
So a few different things.
I didnt say they had to. But they could, which makes a difference. You cant find a different plane or supermarket. The greater ability to choose makes a difference.
In regard to what you asked. This is ethics 101. When your behaviour impacts someone else, then it becomes open to ethical examination.
The kids behaviour impacts me. My behaviour is not impacting the kid.
And yes. Of course that impact is minor. But its arguing about silly stuff on the internet, so of course it is.
I think it’s reasonable to put some responsibility on the barber. However, I dont think its obsolves the parent.
If someone is being loud and a little obnoxious in a restaurant, we would hold that person responsible, even if the restaurant didnt do anything about it.
People’sresponsibility for their own behaviour isnt defined by the formal rules of a venue.
The thing I didn’t realize until I had kids is that all kids or at least a large majority of them scream their head off the first couple of hair cuts and it’s just something you have to power through until the kid realizes they aren’t going to die
I have some kind of magic rapport with toddlers so my unconventional take it that toddlers are awesome (could be because I don’t have kids and never have to watch them more than 4 hours). My favorite time of the week is when I watch my cousin’s 2yo while they go out on date night. I’d probably pay $20 to say that last sentence directly to Charlie Kirk or Ben Shapiro’s face to see how quickly they’d sputter with rage and call me Soy Boy.
But we’re not talking about if it’s ok to bring your toddler to a Wendy’s vs Olive Garden vs a fancy restaurant. We’re talking about a basic function that most people have to do, and going to a place that does that function for toddlers.
Okay.
While we’re on the subject here’s me getting my first haircut, and not happy about it.
Toddlers are cool as hell. I’d pay like, idk, but a stupid amount of money to go back in time and have a week with my kid as a toddler.
Scorching take, imo. There are right answers. The tough part is finding them.