I mean as long as you’re betting on your own ML the odds already assume that the manager will do everything they can to win. It wouldn’t surprise me if they were giving him bad lines. Betting spread is a bit more dicey as they could change their substitution plan to prevent a backdoor cover. And most other bets would be hilariously bad to take any action from.
As a player Rose was widely recognized for doing everything he could to help his team win. As a manager Rose was best known for trying to get the 20th century’s oldest first basemen as many at bats as possible. Also, I haven’t seen any evidence that he only bet the Reds to win.
1 Like
He was top 10 in MVP 10 times I think. Upper echelon HOF career but not top 20. He did physically embody the concept of a baseball player for two decades. Jeter is a good comparison of talent level plus being the face of the game for an extended period.
If you were making lineups of all time players, where does Pete fit? His only chance is at 3rd base. (Lol 1st or RF) He gets a plus for batting leadoff, and durability. Hard to take outside a dynasty / career situation.
Jeter is a good comp as both are nicely over-rated, in large part due to (1) being the face of the most popular team of their era; (2) winning gold gloves at key defensive positions, but actually being bad fielders; and (3) playing well past their peak and accumulating tons of stats. Both were also extremely selfish, putting their ego above the good of the team (Jeter for refusing to move off SS for an actual elite defender and Rose for playing himself nearly everyday at 1b at the end of his career).
I’m not saying either aren’t lock HOFers, but neither should be really even top 50. Guys like Molitor, Young, Brett were all clearly better. Rose wasn’t even close to the best player on the Reds. Despite super long careers, Rose is 63rd in WAR and Jeter 93rd.
As for embodying the concept of baseball, while Rose was a hustler, he was also a dirty player.
1 Like
I’m Never comfortable to just add up stats like WAR to indicate value and a teams overall performance, completely stripping intangibles as having anything to do with team success.
Hot take. (Especially since WAR has been reverse engineered so that the sum pretty much has to equal the win total, making it a self confirming stat).
It’s not like the Big Red machine carried Rose or the 90s NYY carried Jeter. Maybe they were partially inflated in importance by media/fans but again, I’m not replacing them with anyone with similar stats.
(And yes of course, winning gives credit for intangibles which then of course becomes self-confirming for the players on those teams). Winners win.
1 Like
Brett > Rose at 3rd on every conceivable basis of evaluation.
Including pants shitting.
2 Likes
Mike Schmidt vs. Brett is the discussion. Maybe Brooks Robinson.
2 Likes
Tiger Baseball! First time ‘stros are not in the ALCs for 8 years.
3 Likes
Intangibles are irrelevant in baseball imo
As a stros fan, one off year is ok
Nah. Sun is setting on the empire.
Trash can dynasty will rise again
cute story. too bad they couldn’t avoid the monsters of the central in the divisional round.
still on track to be good in 2027 or whatever they’re shooting for, so you got that going 
Thing about the HOF is that it’s dumb and who cares, but the self-absorbed dipshit baseball writers derive basically all of their persona and imagined importance from it, so I’m in favor of anything they’re against.
1 Like
I will take Adrian Beltre over anyone at 3rd.
Signs with anyone but the mariners after his moonshot season with the dodgers and he has a lot of goat talk around him.
I would agree 20 years ago but who the fuck are the self absorbed baseball writers these days?
newspapers are almost obsolete and most baseball writers these days help push analytics. only fucking reason edgar deservely mde it
CLE -150
NYY -190
1 Like
Speaking of 3rd, I think it’s sad Santos didn’t get in before he passed away
That yankee line is criminal, as someone that has watched three figures of yankees games this year