This seems like an important element to figuring out who’s to blame because there is a big difference between someone passing out after 15 seconds of a 15 minute chokehold and someone kicking and screaming at folks for 14 1/2 mins. But it isn’t going to matter anyway because the Billy Bobs of the world aren’t trained for these situations and it wasn’t premeditated.
Someone is the video is telling the guy doing the chokehold that once he defecates you gotta let him go.
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While I do believe in reducing police presence in almost every area that it is enforced, I think this situation seems like a likely outcome of that result. In a lot of situations, I could see it being worse to have a group of “nextdoor” vigilantes playing cop with almost no training and an increased legal leeway to get away with these types of acts compared to a cop. At least in some states they’ll have to be unarmed which is a good thing but not in other places.
I don’t see how it’s better with cops. The training is bullshit. They are trained first and foremost to allow themselves to be put in absolutely no danger, whether that means shooting a violent person or just shooting wildly in the area they imagine a violent person is. Their first order is to be absolutely safe and protect the safety of their brother’s and sister’s in arms.
The psychology I was thinking of though, is something that happens with cops. Groups generally escalate. Anyone de-escalating in a group is likely to worry that they are betraying the group. The most out of control person in a group will generally be determining what happens - whether they are cops or not.
Someone could have taken charge there and made sure the guy was safely restrained, but not many people are willing or able to do that.
I’m not saying cops would necessarily have killed this guy, but I think it’s more likely he dies being restrained by cops than by non-cops.
(and maybe nothing had to happen to the homeless person at all)
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This is good area where a social worker would be better, imo becuase you’ve got some accountability because a cop is far more likely to get charged choking someone for 15 mins with their intent to kill than Billy Bob has with his intent - and he may wanted to kill him and it wouldnt have mattered as much in this situation.
Also, Mr vigilante could have easily targeted this person (he may have from the plethora of neighborhood watch orgs now) to confront this man for whatever reason which would have been harder to do so with a badge. It just seems like a much more hellish version of cop and a horrible direction to go in which I can assure you is the path that the majority of young lower income right wingers want to go.
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Has an internet posse figured out the identity of the choker yet?
I don’t think a majority of young lower income right wingers want to abolish the police.
Yeah, your average young right winger, no. But I think w/e % of the fringe right who do is higher than it was 8 years ago - and it’s a bad trend.
Police brutality was almost certainly worse in the recent decades and one of the good things that happened was the use of body cams that helped bring some sort of accountability. I don’t want to see that go away and the million cops who’d be out of a job would now have a greater edge in a lot of scenarios to get away with bullshit that they couldn’t before.
I have to disagree about the likelihood of getting away with things being higher for non-cops. Cops are not only extremely unlikely to be charged when they beat people, they often get the victims charged with assault. And, of course, you really can’t defend yourself against cops.
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FAFO 2.0
A cop would shoot the guy, claim self-defense, and it would barely even be newsworthy.
The Chauvin Defense! It has lost currency with the advent of smart phones and body cams, however.
Record the police at your own risk.
Not to detract from your main point, but that AZ “8 feet” law was blocked almost immediately and is not being enforced.
I’d like to think more people (cops included) are learning about their rights when it comes to filming police encounters.
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I was thinking a good idea for a free app, if it doesn’t already exist, is one where when you open it, it locks your screen, starts recording then goes blank automatically.
So if you get pulled over, it’s one touch to go into cop mode without making it obvious.
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This app does have a “start recording on launch” setting.
There may be some scenarios where you’d want to record secretly but in general I’d say you want the cops to know your camera is on.
You know that guy’s not safe to be around just from the mustache alone.
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I’m shocked