They’ve got more money than average but got fucked if they try to do to the profession nobly, i.e. setup an office, take most everyone regardless of ability to pay and not engage in billing code games. They are just plain rich if they become corporate whores, i.e. go work for some hospital group that engages in all the horrible stuff we hear about and just keep their heads down.
They are almost all corporate whores now because the alternative is to get relatively fucked. Got no time to play the slow and steady game with $300k in debt racking up interest at 7%.
I want a principled argument from them. I don’t believe in just not paying debts just because. And I think this is very consistent with a lot of things I say here that have nothing to do with forum wars - one thing being that individual actions and responsibilities are separate from public policy.
Anyway, I think it’s not great that this thread is like 100% about student loans from people who I think have a fair amount of student debt, I think have a lot of money and can pay it, I think are lumping themselves in with people who can’t pay it (like stolen valor or something) as if this is the main problem with the administration, when there are still concentration camps.
Forum war wise, yeah, my first comment was inspired by jman.
I’m against means testing on pretty much everything because it seems likely the beaurocracy it takes to enforce it probably costs more (or at least a big chunk of the savings) than they save not giving money to people who don’t need it. Also like Riverman said the absolute least deserving group of people, the generationally rich, get more benefits/pay less taxes than anyone which is a much bigger problem to me than a doctor or lawyer getting some student loan relief.
But i am not basing that first reason on anything but a hunch. Do we know how much it costs to police the Obamacare subsides for example?
I don’t know if this is true or not, but it’s something I’ve heard people suggest…
The medical industry (doctors) act to make the access to accredited medical school and hurdles of licensing extremely onerous in order to protect what they have by restricting the number of doctors and guaranteeing very high pay. And, like some other industries like air line pilots, the ones who have made it perpetuate the arduous and underpaid early years.
I paid back my student loans a decade ago. But no doubt I’m straight up in favor of canceling student loan debt. $10,000 payoff in lieu of starting them up is merely restarting the machine that keeps most Americans in a state of perpetual debt while allowing the rich to accelerate their gains, thus pushing them further away from the middle class.
I’m against means testing because I think it makes people who need help reluctant to take it because it’s stigmatizing and it often needs a bureaucracy that costs more than it saves.
But, like, I’ve just been pilloried as a Tucker Carlson clone for not even suggesting what you just did. I hope you can avoid that.
It’s a completely uninformed take. The thing holding back more doctors in the USA is getting into a residency position. About 90% of US grads match into residency. International Medical School Graduates match at about a 60% rate.
Pretty much anyone can get licensed.
The issue is the number of residency slots, which are largely reliant on federal funding.
I thought that post was out of line and I told him so. I don’t think you’re a Carlson clone but also I don’t think the people in favor of loan forgiveness are motivated by personal greed.
Why is there such a disparity between the pay and hours worked (or so I’ve heard) between residents and after residency? I think most jobs like a teacher, an experienced person makes about double what a new person does. For doctors it’s more like 10x? There would be more money for residents if they were paid a bigger share of the money that goes to all doctors.
I don’t think it (let’s say concern about their money instead of personal greed) will affect how people vote. All the rich people here will be voting for higher income taxes after all. But, I think it has affected what this thread and thoughts about this administration are focused on. Meanwhile…concentration camps.
A typical resident makes 60-70k working 70-80 hours per week (more for surgical specialties) for 48 weeks per year.
Salaries vary a ton among specialties. Pediatrics and primary care will make somewhere from 100-250k. ER docs will make 250-450k (ER is very location dependent pay) working 30-40 hours per week.
Why? Because the residents have absolutely no bargaining power. They’re put into a match, cannot negotiate anything or even directly pick who they’ll work for. Hard to argue for better pay when you can’t credibly leave or even pick where you’re going.
Is board certification a the choke/control point? Maybe it’s too hard to get board certified and that causes people to work for another x years at $18/hr in 20 hours shifts.
I know CN at least used to be conservative/libertarian enough to understand how groups like some unions protect wages by restricting access and making it hard on people to get where they are.
My loans were forgiven already. My wife’s will be in a few months. $10k of loan forgiveness, or $50k of loan forgiveness does exactly jack shit for us. Continuing the student loan pause saves me maybe a few hundred dollars. I am in favor of loan forgiveness because it is sound public policy, not because it will personally help me. Your views about “personal responsibility” look, talk, and walk like a Fox News host.
I’ll give a political argument for loan forgiveness. For better or worse, the Democratic coalition now is minorities, women, and the college-educated. White uneducated folks have decided that doing racism is their priority. We can discuss how Democrats failed the white working class, but at the end of the day, a lot of them switched because a black man in the White House rustled their jimmies. So, basically, fuck them.
Student loan forgiveness helps voter groups that vote more for Democrats. Democrats should reward groups that vote loyally for them. They should lean into their coalition being the not-white, the not-male, and the not-ignorant and punish those who vote against them (white racists).