It’s pretty inner-Israel politics and the thread is in dunk mode so not sure if it’s the time. But Mansour Abbas (and his party, I think the decisions are made with some religious council) made an unprecedented decision to “support” whatever Israeli government formed in exchange for budgets and control over civilian life in the Israeli-Arab sector.
I can see the justifications and pros for that, but also can see how Palestinians can see it as a betrayal or lack of solidarity. I’m not sure where I stand. I do agree with what I assume his premise is.
It was never agreed on. Oslo weren’t a full time agreement, it was a partial start. That was part of the downfall of it. So many things were to be determined later and later never came.
The narrative Ehud Barak pushed is that he offered 95-99% (depends who is telling the story) of area C in Camp David and was rejected. Ehud Barak was an intolerable douche and the negotiation failure at Camp David set the ground for the complete hopelessness we have now.
Oslo II, which was signed two years later, gave the Palestinian Authority, which oversees Gaza and the West Bank, limited control over part of the region, while allowing Israel to annex much of the West Bank, and established parameters for economic and political cooperation between the two sides. As part of the treaty, for example, both sides were prohibited from inciting violence or conflict against the other.
“I didn’t say anything about Hamas, but I’m also not playing some stupid game about who I condemn (the loyalty game - that is fascist).”
not condemning Hamas is the same as supporting them. Just like not calling out people who support racists are racist, right?
I’ve never in my life said that either. Now you’re just doing bad faith. Didn’t take long. You come here and pretend you can do good discourse or something, but it’s a game. CanadaMatt was right to treat you the way he did from the get go.
I am having a similar conversation with you and metsnfins at the same time about Oslo II. That’s why I threw that in there. If I interpret article 16.1 correctly the only open issues regarding territory are Jerusalem and Israeli settlements. Is that correct?
Sure, but “Jerusalem and Israeli Settlements” are pretty gigantic open issues. Also the Oslo Accords were signed between two leaders who are no longer alive and by two parties who are not in control of Israel or Gaza.
Granted. Should the starting point for negotiations be the 1995 or current area of settlements?
If countries cannot be held responsible for the agreements their governments sign as soon as the government changes then that is the end of meaningful diplomacy.
No, he actually started of attempting to join Netanyahu’s coalition but it was shot down by the right wings Nazis that Bibi helped so much to gain power. In a way Bibi and Abbas joining together made it possible for this coalition to maybe form as it helped make it ‘kosher’ for Bennett.
Pretty complex swamp thing, but it has some interesting discussion points in a different setting imo
Bennett doesn’t have ton of leverage in this coalition to do any right wing psycho things. I haven’t made up my mind what I think of this weird concoction of a coalition. At the very least Bibi’s main weapon was to drain any shred of hope for a different reality from all sides. He’s quite a magician when it comes to that. So any change gives a glimmer of hope. Not much more than that tho.
I don’t disagree with the latter part, but it’s part of the reason why diplomacy fails quite often.
Regarding the first question, I don’t have the faintness clue how to jump start a 2 state solution now. It requires a very dumb down approach to the territorial dispute in my view to begin with. Now it’s also quite unfeasible from a logistic standpoint.
Do you think they expect to get something meaningful out of this government that will last? It seemed most opinions were that the best it could do is hang around for maybe 6 months or so, until Netanyahu gets got.
Given that, I figured Abbas must be more about wanting to see what happens with the guy who’s ruled Israeli politics for ages out of the way, rather than anything they’ll get now. Though that did seem a risky roll of the dice.