I’m just a neoliberal shill, but, “Canada prioritizes treatment based on urgency, we prioritize based on $, which seems better to you?” seems like a decent comeback.
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That depends, how much money does the person you’re trying to convince have?
Unless their name is Bezos, not enough :)
The cutoff point where it flips to being more expensive is probably going to be in the range of 100-150K/yr of income.
Like most of the medical stuff, it depends.
EMERGENCIES, like you’re going to the OR as soon as we get the study done, are very uncommon and get gone immediately, with the caveat that a patient may be transported to another facility to get the study - a fair number of hospitals either don’t do MRI’s, or more commonly do the M-F 9a-4p or so - AND you need a neuroradiologist/neurosurgeon to read the study. Stuff like this include epidural abscess/hematoma, acute paralysis, brain MRI for stroke if clot retrieval might be helpful.
But we don’t do emergent MRI’s for the vast majority of the stuff, because it’s not going to result in acute change in management, and we’re too goddam busy to demand your MRI for your chronic knee pain/back pain at 1am. If you have insurance, you’re still going to jump through some hoops for a few days/couple of weeks. If you’re uninsured, longer - mostly because SOMEONE has to order the exam, so you’re going to have to get seen by some sort of primary provider to get the test scheduled - and can take weeks, easily.
Lastly - your idiot friend 99+% of the time needs an MRI like I need a third nipple, anyway. I ranted about that an another topic, but back surgery is insanely lucrative, and preforms marginally (if at all) better than him getting off his fat ass, losing 20 pounds and getting a bit of exercise. But that’s a talk for another time.
MM MD
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My hernia surgery took like 6 months to schedule in USA #1. Not even Kaiser - but Anthem Blue Cross good corporate plan.
Huh. My hernia surgery was one of the few times I was impressed with the system. I don’t remember how long it took from diagnosis to surgery, but it was probably just a few weeks. It was back in 1999, which is a lifetime ago. I remember the surgery was on September 15 and I popped the hernia on a jet ski, so that was probably August.
On the flip side, my wife is in the midst of a significant health scare (could be nothing, could be something) and she’s had to fight to get seen/tested without waiting weeks. Fortunately, she works in the insurance industry, so she’s good at fighting - she knows which buttons to push.
In the US you’d probably be dead before you even knew you needed the MRI.
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My son got an MRI done at about 1am after we arrivied around 10pm to a public hospital in France. He’d bumped his head in the bath and then wouldn’t stop vomiting everywhere. Didn’t cost us a penny and he was fine, and people are welcome to quote this to win any M4A arguments.
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I guess it just comes down to availability It wasn’t a big deal. I had lived with it for a year when I was playing poker and had no insurance anyway.
I had a hernia that twisted up so they had to operate immediately. Then two years later the fix slipped and had to have emergency surgery again.
I suspect in a situation where an mri is actually necessary Canada gets it done quickly.
The issue is free standing mri clinics that have to gin up business outside of medical necessity and are actually owned by business people not healthcare people.
So maybe the answer is the US has too many MRI machines and too many needless MRIs, draining resources.
I think most MRIs done in hospitals are likely to fall under the necessary umbrella. In the US though there are MRI clinics all over the place for out patient stuff feed by pcps and specialists.
As Hobbes noted back specialist live by them. There are undoubtedly useful mris done outside hospitals in the US but they are the exception.
Where is the list of the official wait times for diagnostic procedures in Canada? Is there some national .ca docket or do I download them directly from Hannity’s site?
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If he was given a CT that would be reasonable per current guidelines. Shouldn’t have been given an MRI - that’s not the right test, unless their CT scanner was down and they didn’t have the ability to do one.
MM MD
This is 100% plus the right answer.
MM MD
https://twitter.com/TheRachelFisher/status/1230262944555913217
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1byn1l/i_was_mauled_by_a_bear_fought_it_off_and_drove_4/
Here is a ChiefsPlanet type moment: my right leaning golf forum confronts healthcare:
Redundant
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I’m not rich enough to understand the appeal of golf
That’s a shame for argument winning purposes.