Thanks. I am an ally of the right of immigrants to get jobs.
Can one of the “everyone who runs or owns a business is pure evil” people here explain what your solution is in this case? He gave a bunch of people jobs, sounds like he promoted them. Let’s assume they don’t have healthcare (even though we don’t know that) because they are undocumented and can’t apply for it.
What is the actual solution? Should he not hire them?
“Clear out your desk by nine, ICE are coming.”
Awesome job.
It begins with him not supporting Trump. Why and how he came to be in the position he is and still support Trump is YOUR problem to explain, not mine. I have my answer - he’s a greedy sack of shit quite indifferent to the wellbeing of those around him who deserves neither gratitude nor the presumption of good intent - you seem to think that’s not quite right.
I’d ask what you do think is right, but honestly? I don’t care.
Bottom line, I think he’d be getting a pass had he done all of these things while actively supporting someone like Sanders, showing some awareness of the system while doing what he could to keep his business functional without fucking over workers too hard. The Trump support implies that he was oblivious–perhaps he was relatively benevolent compared to his peers, but not because of any sort of sense of justice, fairness, or equality.
Being a trump supporter is bad. No question. Funny how you focus on the point I already conceded in my original post. However it doesn’t answer my question.
How is hiring immigrants bad? Should he not hire them? This is one of those places where people’s abstract political ideas come face-to-face with the real world.
You’re supposed to pretend that you don’t apply different moral standards to people based on whether or not you agree with their political views!
Employing immigrants is a good thing to do. Supporting Trump is bad. Meditate until you can hold in your mind the idea that a single person could do a thing that is bad, but also do a thing that is good. It’s like a Zen koan.
There are a lot of people, particularly people who spend most of their lives doing stuff rather than thinking about stuff, who don’t really question the politics they were raised with. They are often super progressive (in the sense that they understand the space and are always thinking about how to push it forward rather than just trying to defend the status quo) in the fields they are actually experts in, but don’t bother to really think too hard about politics.
For example my closest business partners are religious, and republican… but they are genuinely decent people who run a good business and are an absolute wonder to partner with. They aren’t hurting anyone or anything in their personal lives, it’s just that they spend 90%+ of their time doing stuff instead of thinking about stuff. When they get free time they go do stuff. They don’t sit around thinking about how things are, should be, etc. They probably don’t read much, and if they do read they probably avoid stuff that would contradict their beliefs.
They aren’t regular Fox News watchers really, they aren’t news of any kind watchers. They simply don’t follow it, and it has little to no impact on their lives. And they are significantly happier than the members of this forum honestly.
People like these aren’t bad really. They just believe whatever was standard in the area they grew when they were growing up. They would be liberal if they had grown up in a liberal area at a more liberal time. They tend to be significantly out of date in their political views by the time they die, and are an excellent reason why old people shouldn’t be allowed to vote (because some large % of them are going to be like this, and their voting choices become more and more destructive as they age I’m hypothesizing).
Being a doer instead of a hard core thinker is why Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until she was 50. You don’t really have time to do stuff like update your political philosophy on a biannual basis when you’re working your ass off. In her case she was raising multiple kids (my business partners had a LOT of kids as well) while working full time, getting married, divorced, married again, getting multiple degrees, and becoming one of the nations leading experts on bankruptcy… where she was almost immediately very progressive because that’s generally where you land as you become more and more informed.
What I’m trying to say is that there are a lot of pretty decent people out there who identify as Republicans. The ones who make it a core part of their identity all suck though lol. They’ve really thought about it and decided that Trump is god. That’s a really weird take.
And just for the last word my business partners were very uncomfortable about Trump from the beginning because they are good business people and know a scammer when they see one. I’m 90% sure they didn’t turn out for him… and they are the kind of people who see voting as a duty and take duty super super seriously. The only reason I don’t know what their current view on the matter is, is that I’m not a barbarian and know better than to rub people with whom I do enormous business withs faces in shit.
BS,
Those types are almost always super racist. They know not to say it out loud, but give 'em a third drink and a comfortable audience and it inevitably comes out.
No-one here thinks or has made remarks consistent with thinking that it’s innately bad to employ immigrants. Your question, as with so much of your posting, is facile and irrelevant.
They sure did
Sure… but that’s because they were taught racism from a super early age. Pretty much every human in history was super racist. I also disagree with the idea that anyone isn’t racist. We have all had racist moments, and see race. Claiming that you aren’t racist weirdly enough has become kind of a red flag for being very racist lol.
I mean when was the last time someone said ‘I’m not a racist but…’ or ‘I don’t have a racist bone in my body’ who wasn’t a raging racist? I try not to be racist. Hard. But it’s tempting sometimes. Particularly when I’m trying to hire trucks in shitholes in the deep south and the last 4 black guys I hired did a trash job. There’s a little voice in my head saying ‘black people who didn’t leave Shreveport the second it was possible suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck’. But I go ahead and hire them anyway, have my suspicions confirmed the fifth time, and keep on swallowing those feelings. In reality they are just underfunded and trying really hard to escape poverty (which is as much about not having been taught how to run a business as it is about money), and if I refuse to do business with them as standard policy that’ll make it that much harder.
Racism is something you do more than something you feel. Human brains are built to recognize patterns, and grouping other humans to form patterns is something it does whether we like it or not. There are an awful lot of people who absolutely didn’t vote for Trump who are very happy that where they live has no black people to speak of. That absence of black people in the middle and upper middle class is racism, not the opinions people have after a few drinks.
See his post above yours. You have again run afoul of your instinctive assumption that everyone around you is much, much dumber than you are. But this is not so.
Exactly see the post above mine.
By the way, the ratio of personal insults to actual argument in your posts is really imbalanced.
Yeah… there’s a reason I have Victor on ignore. It’s because he’s a low information idealist whose posts contain neither useful information or anything that could be described as analysis. He’s a prime example of why ‘everybody thinks that they are entitled to an opinion’ is in the con column for democracy. I’m pretty pro socialism, but I know a partisan hack when I see one. I no longer have any interest in the rantings of idealists who don’t actually care how things work in the real world.
And yeah I don’t care if this post comes across condescending. I firmly believe one of the worst things happening in the US (and the world although to a much lesser extent) is the fact that everyone thinks that their opinion matters. This ‘but mah opinion’ stuff is responsible for Trump, climate change denial, and a bunch of other awful shit getting traction and keeping traction. If you haven’t done the work to develop an informed opinion maybe defer to the people who have?
Google ‘innately’. In fact, don’t bother. I just remembered we’ve had this exact exchange before. It was about taxation, but it was exactly the same inability or outright refusal to recognise the distinction between the innate and the contingent or conditional. Just a complete waste of everyone’s time.
I have no idea and nor do you. We do know, from the data we have been given, is he doesn’t sound like a hardcore trumpkin based on what stimabuser has said. Maybe he is a low information voter who pays no attention to the news. You know like most Americans. He may be a really bad guy. I don’t know. I’m simply using the actual data we have, and not preconceptions to suggest maybe not.
You don’t seem to be able to get past the one data point, which is obviously bad, and see the other data points which are obviously good.
Trump supporter bad
Hiring immigrants good
Promoting them good
Some of them driving expensive cars good
Caring that they have to quit good
Caring that they might be deported good
More insults. Thanks for the substantive contribution to the discussion.
“You are making a mistake, one I have observed you make before” isn’t an insult.
“You are exactly the sort of self-regarding natural gobshite who mistakes ‘something that makes me feel bad’ for ‘insult’” on the other hand, that’s an insult.
I’ve been on the opposite side of clovis plenty on this forum… He’s right here.
More content for the discussion. As always, substantive. Keep up the good work.
So have you googled ‘innately’ yet, or do you prefer to whinge?