Fall LC thread

Victor,

Why are you focused on the fact that hiring undocumented immigrants is crime? Isn’t this exactly the kind of law we want broken? It’s a law that helps keeps poor people poor.

Of course, the obvious solution is to give undocumented immigrants citizenship status so they can be protected by existing laws. I don’t think there should be such a thing as undocumented. I’m for virtually totally open borders. However, until that happens I want people to ignore that law and keep hiring undocumented immigrants.

If you think employing people is bad period, there are arguments. If you think supporting Trump is bad, you are right. But employers who refuse to hire undocumented immigrants are worse than those who hire them, all else being equal.

Obviously this.

I have no idea and nor do you but I do know his employees have jobs.

Bashing that on his supporting Trump? There is some merit to that, but imo most people don’t think about it much and are partisan, low-info, and not curious and/or smart. And while Dems may have a slightly better average as far as treating people irl fairly, they may not, and it’s certainly not as big a difference as just the variation from person to person.

You make it seem as if there are plenty of citizens willing to work at these relatively low paying, physically demanding jobs.

Depending on where the company is it wouldn’t be surprising if the vast majority of applicants for jobs are undocumented.

But that’s kind of the issue. If there is a job people don’t want to work because it doesn’t pay enough the solution should be raise the wages for those jobs so people will want to accept those position.

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In the real world for a small manufacturer there’s a pretty good chance that’s impossible. Labor is short and margins are thin.

This is the problem with mixing the general and specific.

Obviously minimum wages should be higher and undocumented immigrants should be protected by labour laws

AND

it’s good people are hiring undocumented immigrants until these structural problems can be addressed.

Every case is going to be different but the reason labor is short is because they don’t pay enough for it.

If margins are to thin then they need to charge more. If that is not possible then they will go out of business.

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The very raison d’être of every online forum. :wink:

Raising minimum wage laws is really just a band-aid to the core problem. Workers don’t have power when their survival is predicated off working for wages.

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If he’s withholding/paying payroll taxes, then their wages are automatically 15% lower than their coworkers. Add in all the other insurances that they’d pay while not being able to use and it’s a pretty significant chunk. I’m getting pretty tired of sweatshops are better than subsistence farming type arguments when it’s clear that there’s a third, better option.

Yes that’s right. And likely they would go out of business and the work would go where the labor is cheaper.

It’s a lot to blame the structural ills of global capitalism on this one drug dealer. (Supplier of cheap crap) The problem, as with drugs, is demand - the consumer.

Which reminds me of an idea I’ve had before, there should be a labor certification organization akin to the way products are certified organic or kosher. “Everyone involved in the manufacture of this product was paid a living wage, had health care, and safe working conditions…etc”

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The employees squatting the company and operating it as a worker cooperative?

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It was me brothers birthday just there and he wanted a in car camera, so I goto a local Car shop Halford for the whole thing including fitting, and he got upset for a week over this because it cost me like £20 more than it would have been from amazon and a local fitter to fit the camera.

Infact he’s still not really spoke to me since.

What’s upset him? He had to drive to the store and talk to someone I think. :roll_eyes:

I have a radio fitter Auto electrician next to my base and they fit all our stuff, there really good but it’s always a wait of upto 2 weeks and the Auto electrician always recommend Halfords Store. :rofl:

I usually always goto Halfords store for any fittings too, because there always helpful and quick,and reasonably priced.

This post gets at the core of the problem. People are going to demand that the product be delivered at the cheapest cost possible. What’s possible is determined by the rules of the game. The rules of the game are absolutely garbage right now.

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Elizabeth Warren is right that our trade deals should be made with worker parity in mind. It’s really not OK to import stuff from countries where the workers are treated the way we treated workers in the late 1800’s. That’s suuuuuper unfair to our workers and bad for everyone.

Yes. This is very good.

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/trade-on-our-terms-ad861879feca

She probably read this from Bernie’s site.

Bernie believes that a strong disincentive that would stop companies from relocating is to negotiate trade agreements that not only protect the wage of U.S. workers wages but also promote better wages for the workers who create the products we import.

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