Ah. I didn’t see that one.
To be honest. It was a run of his posts that prompted my original comment. Definitely the worst of it…
But we had that mixed in with a bunch of others that were similar, but not as obvious, and no one calling him out for it… and the instant defensiveness…
Altogether not a good look.
The software does kinda suck in this regard. Should be a reply and a separate quote button that defaults to only the post you are responding to.
A and B arent mutually exclusive.
I really don’t know why everyone here is shocked at the idea that a group of progressive men actually have a bunch of problematic biases about women.
Do you ever listen to progressive women activists? Lefty men being sexist af is a common common theme.
Of course we are all sexist to a degree.
Finally. Im seeing striking similarities between the arguments being made here and the GOP thinking something isn’t racist unless they say the N word and wear a hood.
Things can be sexist without being as explicit “x is bad at her job because shes a woman” or “i hate her because shes a woman” or “how dare she say that to a man”
Absolutely.
I’m not seeing these similarities at all.
Ill try to explain myself better then.
The argument here is that the criticism is tied to bias, the automatic use of sexist tropes, and a stronger reaction to a woman than a man.
Yet multiple times people have pulled out similar straw man arguments like “what. We arent sexist. How would we have liked her at first if we thought women were bad at their jobs” or “how can we be sexist. We all like AOC” or “what’s more likely. We all hate her for talking back to a man”
All three of those treat sexism as if it means they must hate all women. And if they dont hate all women, it can’t be sexist.
Its the same argument as “I have a black friend. I can’t be racist”
I have no problem agreeing that many of us have some sexist biases. It’s impossible not too. Hell when there was that huge debate with the female poster on 2+2 I believe I mostly agreed with her and JohnnyTruants posts on the subject and it opened my eyes a lot. We all have biases and I like that we discuss it and work on getting better.
What I take an issue with is that idea that the attacks on Warren are born out of sexism. They’re completely valid criticisms that come from her actions not her gender. It’s just so lazy and weak to just decry identity politics every time someone who isn’t a straight white male is criticized .It was basically the same exact thing when people criticizing GOPete were accused of being homophobic. It’s dismissing valid criticisms with nah you’re just a bigot.
Thats why I said your line makes it seem like we can’t criticize a woman without being sexist. Gender had absolutely NOTHING to do with people criticizing Warren, so pulling that card makes it seems like its impossible to do so without being called sexist.
The difference between the GOP " I have a black friend so I’m not racist " and the criticism of Warren is that all of the arguments against her were valid and has a pattern to back them up.
I don’t think the reasons for the criticisms are born out of sexism.
The type and vehemence of the criticisms, however, are where I think the inherent biases are coming into play.
As for the criticism of Pete, I can make the exact same comment but replace sexism with implicit anti-gay tropes (as in, he’s sneaky or underhanded, which is is a homophobic trope that exists, and the ease in which the far left fell into it is just as icky as some of the stuff I’m seeing in this Warren/Bernie flap)
I didn’t because I have that turd blocked. I have no issue believing he was being a sexist asshole. So if your posts are directed solely at him then we agree. Seems like you were accusing the community as a whole though.
Yeah +1 to being confused because I don’t see anachronistics posts. That dude sucks kind of a lot.
Disagree. People just stubbornly refuse to unlearn old habits. Most of the time there is no need to quote anything. In the rare cases when there is you can select the relevant text you want to quote and a Quote button automatically pops up and does exactly what you would want it to do.
I really don’t think that this is the case at all for either Warren or Pete.
The attacks are no doubt vehement, but that’s because both had presented themselves as ardent progressive allies and have recently done things that have caused us to rethink that.
Remember that both Pete and Warren were extremely popular in this community 4 months ago, and would largely still be so had they not done things that harm the progressive agenda.
Where do we put canceling an event at a gay bar because there is a dancer’s pole on the homophobic scale?
I disagree. I think it was because she is a fellow progressive and supposed to be on our team, not making it more likey Biden wins the nom and we lose to Trump again.
Like I said do you think the reaction would have been the same if it was Klob/Kamala/Tulsi? I certainly don’t. I think people would have gone after them for being establishment or Putin plants. Basically the same if it had been Biden.
If a progressive male in Warrens situation had done what she did I think the reaction would have been the same.
OK well is there some way to delete my account or do you now have (some of) my personal information forever? I didn’t see anything in the user settings. Please delete vaya and vaya1 if there’s not a way for me to do it myself.
JFC what are you doing, man. This ain’t worth going kamikaze over.
Can I pull out my own made up scenario, just like you did…?
“Imagine a world…”
Is Rugby doing a bit
This is at the heart of it. Listen carefully: I don’t think that having a private conversation with someone where you want them to be truthful and then later outing the contents of it for personal gain is just a little bit bad. I think it’s really fucking disgraceful. I get that you apparently don’t think this, but it’s mindblowingly arrogant to accuse everyone of sexist bias because you personally don’t understand the strength of the reaction. Like Jesus Christ man, do you not have enough self awareness to understand that it’s incredibly fucking rude to dismiss the opinions of others like that? You don’t have the one correct opinion on how serious a transgression it was.
Why should I give a shit what anachronistic posted? If someone does the sexism against Elizabeth Warren ITT does that mean I’m no longer allowed to criticize her? If you want to call individual posts out, do that, but please quit it with this appalling collective-blame horseshit.
I don’t like anachronistic’s posting, but in his defense, I think people are confusing his post with mine (don’t think anybody actually said ■■■■ but me), which was meant to be a harsh satire of what I felt was pretty clear sexism.