I don’t think you guys are understanding my full point. Sure, I think Warren supports are, on average, smarter than Bernie supporters, and plenty (maybe 10-20%) of Bernie supporters are downright toxic.
But, as Trump and his republican enablers have shown, human beings, in general, are too stupid to govern themselves in a complex society. They believe conspiracies far more than facts, and we will probably literally destroy the species within the next 100 years, whether through nuclear war (either by accident or stupidity), climate change, pandemics, etc, and it will likely be the result of things that were obvious and avoidable.
I used to think that reason and forthrought guided the hand of history, and that people would make sensible decisions “after trying everything else.” This is why Marx was wrong–society changed to dampen the contradictions of capitalism. However, the pace of technological change is now fast enough (and humans still have mostly ape brains) that the time it takes to adjust policy and politics is much slower than the change policy and politics seeks to accommodate.
My only hope is demographics, in that older people, who now control most of the resources (and vote at like 2x their numbers) but mentally live in the world of 50 years ago, will “age out” of the population and we can actually begin to address the structural challenges and threats we face. Because any system that can result in Donald Trump not only becoming president but also being retained in office is fundamentally flawed, and if it doesn’t fail now, it is certainly prone to failure.
lol it’s amazing how people on this forum compare Bernie supporters to Trump and his supporters and then Simp here is pulling Trumpian numbers out of his ass (why stop at 10-20%, I hear people saying it’s as high as 50% folks) as to how many toxic Bernie supporters there are. And of course when any of the people guessing as to how many toxic Bernie supporters are asked to back it up they can’t or just say it’s because of feels based on this site or relying on Bloomberg attack ads LOL
also nice ikesing simp, your first post didn’t say Warren supporters were more intelligent, you specifically said Bernie had the stupid supporters and used a comparison of how many mathematicians donate to her compared to waiters for Bernie so fuck off
Is Fox News covering these Bernie attacks? I actually hope they are, increases the chances of story fatigue by the time the general election rolls around and Trump starts tweeting out the same dumb videos.
I don’t disagree with you. My point was talking more about messaging and the universe where we don’t take the Senate. If Bernie wins and doesn’t have the Senate, I think it will play out badly for the movement or whatever you want to call it, if he can’t produce legislation and that’s what he has been promising. There’s still a ton that can be done to advance the ball and make real improvements in people’s lives through executive agencies, but I’m afraid Bernie’s coalition may not hold together if that stuff isn’t being promoted, too.
But unlike any other candidate, Bernie will have the credibility, the message, and the backing movement to turn legislative failures against those that are stopping him rather than taking the hit himself. He doesn’t have to pretend that he’s on the same team as anyone else just because they’re wearing Blue–vote em all out.
Change comes from movements, not carefully planned incrementalism. This movement has the power to truly change things up. We’re playing from behind, sure, but that just means we’ve got to increase variance rather than try to beat the entrenched power brokers at their own game. Either this works or we’re all fucked anyways.
What fucking planet are you living on? Have you been asleep for the last four years? Power is literally the only thing that matters. We take power by building a movement of working people. There is precisely one candidate capable of doing that. Jesus fucking christ
The difference between Bernie and someone decent like Obama is that Bernie won’t just murmur curse words under his breath when a handful of dipshit establishment D blocks legislation because they were paid off by the home state insurance company or whatever.
He is going to plaster those motherfuckers’ faces everywhere and the “Bernie Bros” are going to make them the poster children for corruption. Then it’s going to be look how far we have come brothers and sisters but we must continue the fight, and these are the obstacles in our way.
The establishment Ds want power for the sake of power, so they are happy to cover-up for each other. Leaving the average person completely bewildered and confused about why things are not happening and who is responsible. Makes you feel hopeless and powerless. Bernie don’t play that.
I mean could you in a million years imagine Bernie doing something as shameful as what Pelosi did just a few days ago?:
Does anyone need anymore evidence that it’s more about Party than policy? NRA, anti-choice, KochbroBro is a Democrat. That’s what matters. Guns don’t matter. Choice doesn’t matter. The environment doesn’t matter. And Pelosi is on the liberal side of the DemE. She’s not Dianne Feinstien. Party above all.
Yep, and they have the nerve to say “but Sanders is not a D” as an insult. Another time Trump happened to be right, these are very sick people we are dealing with.
I know I’m stating the obvious here but that’s what they’re afraid of. Imagine seeing what happened in Nevada and then complaining about Bernie’s support being disproportionately comprised of “dumb” waiters. Some folks who are basically parodies of coastal elites love performative identity politics while looking down their noses at people they consider yokels. I have no doubt that if these “liberals” found themselves in tough economic circumstances they’d be wearing Maga hats and waving confederate flags.
It was entertaining to watch leftists rage about the filibuster and demand that it be ended only to fall silent and incorporate it as a given the moment Bernie came out in favor of the filibuster.
Too much innate human frailty, for anyone other than the naive to think a mythological force-for-good will suddenly correct course and properly steward mankind.
Capitalism and democracy further challenge and impede consensus for action, when a nimbleness is needed to address the existential threat of climate change.
No integral safeguard has been put in place to ‘dampen’ the effects of anything consequential.
Nah almost all of us still want him to nuke the filibusterer, Although thats the senates job not his, I hope he presses for it.
Both things are true. We need to nuke the filibuster, but we also need an electoral revolution if we’re gonna get anything done in this country. Otherwise Republicans will just win back congress and nuke it and do their own shit.
We need a massive shift left and Bernie is the man to get that done.
Someone posted something about Bernie having some other kind of plan to pass shit with 50 votes. Something to do with the VP. It sounded savage as fuck. I definitely hope he either does that or gets fed up and nukes the filibusterer.
Yeah, making abolishing the filibuster your top priority for POTUS is disgraceful. It’s not even a law they can sign or not sign or veto or not. And if it were either Liz’s or Bernie’s top issue, they should stay in the Senate.
Leave the filibuster, let the corrupt Dirty Ds participate in filibuster and “block” legislation. Pass legislation through “super-reconciliation” anyway and primary exposed Dirty Ds. Easy game.