Guys it’s stockholm syndrome 101. You yell and scream at racists, sexists and general assholes to shame them buuuut when they start recanting you need to be super nice to them and coax them over to you. It’s like you’ve never kept someone locked in a basement to make them love you before.
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So the intent was to have one thread for petty derails and one for actual news?
We’re just going to end up with two threads with petty derails.
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GO PETE GO! (For second.)
Pretty huge if Biden comes in third or, OMG one time please please fourth! Like I’m guessing the MOE is 3-4 points, and it’s probably more likely this is a bit of an outlier and Biden is at like 20%, but if Biden comes in third or fourth in Iowa, he’s probably coming in fourth in New Hampshire… you’d then expect Bernie to win Nevada, and if Bernie goes 1-1-1 and Biden goes like 3-4-2, that could end his campaign before SC or weaken it enough for Bernie to put up a much stronger than expected showing in South Carolina, which would be massive and make Bernie a significant favorite.
The key is that if Biden’s candidacy is wounded in IA and NH, Bernie is probably going to get a lot more of the African-American voters in SC than Buttigieg is, so the race shapes up quite a bit differently and Bernie’s coalition widens quite a bit. It then probably turns into a three way race between Bernie, Liz and Pete.
By the way, interestingly, in a scenario like that, Booker is probably going to regret dropping out.
More likely it’s an outlier and Bernie and Biden go 1-2 in Iowa, and things play out about as expected in the first few states.
But he made a semi-edgy joke about Hillary turning tricks for campaign donations soooooo
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Biden is never dropping out before SC.
Regarding Joe Rogan, a few things:
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Not all of the people who consume some of his content are part of this toxic crowd that is being spoken of. (If this is getting you triggered, make sure you read the rest of #1 and #2.) For example, he has on some experts in their field and does long interviews with them and gets way in depth. I was interested in eating broccoli sprouts for their numerous health benefits, and a woman called Dr. Rhonda Patrick is like THE broccoli sprouts expert. He had her on for a long interview and I watched some of it on YouTube looking for specific information. This is one of a few times I’ve stumbled onto his YouTube looking for content of a specific person who ended up having been his guest.
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There’s definitely a toxicity about a lot of his content/audience. I had a friend who I cut out of my life in 2017 for a handful of reasons, but basically the dude was just a toxic macho bro guy who was really annoying to me and could never let an argument go. He also thought Trump was hilarious and would be harmless, I could have made a big bet with him that people would end up in cages but I couldn’t live with myself making money that way. Obviously I should have taken the bet and donated it to charity. Anyway, this guy LOVES Joe Rogan. I didn’t know much about him at the time, and my buddy really wanted to go see a comedy show of his in Philly and hang out, so I agreed. At this point in time, I basically only knew Rogan as the Fear Factor guy. There were definitely a number of cringe moments during the routine for me, and each time my buddy was cracking up and loved it. The biggest cringe thing was the crowd. As soon as we got near the theatre and were walking in, I knew I had fucked up and was in for an annoying evening. It was like allllllllllll dudes. Barely a couple there, no groups of women, and the jokes/comments you could overhear made me uncomfortable being part of that crowd.
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Lots of these people will vote for a staunchly liberal candidate who doesn’t lecture them about the ills of their views on progressive social issues, then ignore it as that candidate does a bunch of great stuff on those issues along with the Medicare for All type stuff. Should we cater to them? Obviously not. Should we discourage their votes and support? I don’t know for sure, it’s a fair debate, but I think not. It’s complicated.
I mean, Rogan also said this, which is left of and stronger than what probably 95% of elected Dems in Congress would say about these issues:
Like, can you even imagine Joe Biden or Chuck Schumer or insert prominent eDem here saying of family separation, “If that doesn’t freak you the fuck out, you’re not a part of the team man, you’re missing it… What are we here for? We’re here for 100 years of whatever. If you want to spend a hundred years saying, ‘Hey she shouldn’t have fucking broke the law,’ I don’t want you on the team, you’re an asshole. I don’t give a fuck if you’re right or left, I don’t care if you’re religious, I don’t care if you’re an atheist, if that’s what you support, you’re an asshole and we don’t want you on our team.”
He goes on to basically say he’s glad AOC won even if he disagrees on issues with her, because she’s getting money out of politics and represents the people in her district, not the money.
Now I’m sure people can dig up a bunch of absolutely TERRIBLE things he has said or his guests have said without him pushing back, and I get that, and the left should have a discussion of this kind of stuff, but if we want to make big changes in the next decade, we probably need the support of these types of people.
- Catfacemeowmers nailed it with this:
I play poker with a handful of these dudes on the regular, like literally Trump voters who either fit that country club suburban Philly stereotype right down to the private golf course pullover or the Joe Rogan listener South Philly type.
The country club types are almost strictly voting on finances, so if we want to woo them with Joe Biden and promises not to raise their taxes, we can try, but at the end of the day, the teeny tiny difference between Biden’s tax plans and Trump’s tax plans may be a bridge too far and they may be in for four more years. This way we don’t get the Joe Rogan endorsement for the candidate, and we may feel morally superior in that regard, but if you think those voters aren’t spewing their toxic masculinity every time there aren’t women around, I don’t know what to tell you.
Some of the Rogan types will go for Bernie, because they really only care about 2-3 issues, and they tend to be stuff like getting money out of politics. I actually had a quiet conversation at the table with one of these types recently. He’s an Obama-Trump voter who I have considering Bernie if he wins the nomination. I had to ignore some comments during the back and forth about various issues that I really didn’t like ignoring, but by focusing on healthcare, getting money out of politics, honesty of the candidate, and just being a good person who’s not going to rip families apart, I was able to get through to him a bit. He viewed Trump as a necessary brick through the window even though he thinks he’s an asshole, and if his choice is to pick that same brick up and throw it again or to pick up a nicer brick and throw it, he’ll take the nicer brick, but he’s not voting for Joe Biden or Pete Buttigieg.
- Joe Rogan’s overall political views may surprise some people. Like, I’ve seen < 10 YouTube videos of this guy totaling < 60 minutes in my life, and I can tell you he’s for socialized healthcare and improving and further socializing education. He’s for less bombs. He’s not randomly endorsing Bernie… His views actually match up with the liberal wing of the Democratic party on a lot of issues.
If you ask me, the question is not whether we should seek or accept these endorsements, it’s whether we should promote them and celebrate them. There’s a moral question to it and a risk-reward question. Bernie may have alienated some supporters and sent the wrong message to them… But bottom line: if we start getting a significant percentage (maybe even like 10-15% counts) of votes from this archetype of voter over the next decade, 60 seats in the Senate are back in play and just dominating the political landscape is in play. If the Faustian bargain is to not lecture them about their bigotry and sexism, and then to placate them with policies we want to enact anyway (Medicare for All, getting money out of politics, progressive tax policy) while doing the right thing on all of those social issues… That doesn’t seem like a bad idea to me. Instead of giving them someone to blame for their problems, we fix their problems (which happen to be things we want to do anyway) and do the right thing on those social issues while hoping that their bigotry is reduced when their economic situation improves.
And, listen, if they don’t like it, they can vote for someone else next time and we should tell them to fuck off at that point. Nobody is saying we should be on bended knee on social policy for these voters.
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Have a blessed day
wat
there’s an old thread for your bullshit
you were gonna drop some takes on race then thought better of it right?
I was going to drop takes on race?
Tell me more PoC rabbit-hole spelunker?
dog
and i wasn’t joking, there’s a question from me to you still sitting there
and lol at leaving off the ‘centrist’ part, just a heads up, i’m way way better at this than you
Most dem candidates do the following (mostly in regards to policy) to get the “moderates”
https://twitter.com/dril/status/841892608788041732?s=21
Bernie doesn’t do that and might get the support and Dems lose their mind
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Have you been reading the thread? Rogan wants universal health care, free college, and to spend a lot of tax money on helping poor communities and he’s had those positions for years.
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Good post. I at least hope we wouldn’t be having this conversation if Bernie’s response to the endorsement had been nothing or just that tweet that was posted a little back about wanting a big tent but also not compromising on values. Riverman’s post that any winning coalition is full of dumbasses is correct.
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Boy, that’s a red flag.
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I remember a year ago or two when I used to argue with Trumpers on an old forum, I would argue trump and most of his supporters are racist assholes. They would argue dems accused Trump of racism and used identity politics to avoid talking about the issues.
Looks like we were both right, at least in regards to the dem establishment.
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It’s mostly that he doesn’t have the knowledge of the topic to do it. He probably doesn’t want to chase off future guests too.
Personally, I don’t watch those episodes because they’re pretty boring. I enjoy the episodes with comedians as guests. I don’t know how people listen to Jordan Peterson for more than 5 minutes without getting bored to sleep. He really is the dumb man’s view of a smart guy. Ever since CTH pointed out that he sounds like Kermit the Frog, I tend to laugh more than listen now.
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The key point is…Who cares? Rogan is kind of an idiot. He doesn’t seem like a guy that’s going to have great justification and reasoning for whoever he votes for. It’s the perfect endorsement to simply not respond to. He’s not so bad that you have to disavow him, but has said enough bad things about parts of your marginalized base that you don’t want to trot him out. If you do that it’s not even a story. It’s not like the political world was waiting to see who this bro was endorsing.
I think Rogan thinks that pushing back against a guest isn’t what his role is. He wants to let the guests talk about what they want to talk about and to get to know them and to ask questions about their expertise and experience that Rogan is interested in. If you judge Rogan’s podcast by the standards of journalism, which ought to be adversarial, then you’re going to be disappointed. But that’s not how Rogan approaches it, he wants it to be like a long conversation between friends.
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Having said that his interview with Bernie was one of the best interviews of a political candidate that I’ve ever seen. Because you got to know Bernie, he got a chance to really go into depth on some of his answers, and Joe asked interesting questions.
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I think you’re missing the point. Women and minorities aren’t thrilled with the Sanders campaign being happy about the Rogan endorsement. They aren’t talking about strategy, they simply have a negative emotional reaction to to some of the things Joe says. People whitesplaining/mansplainning to them why it’s a good thing strategically or the same as Colin Powell/Obama doesn’t actually make them feel better about it.
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