Dealing with Deplorable Family and Friends

Politics & News
268

I’m sorry to hear that.

Does how this affects you carry over back to your personal life?

Sometimes I find myself affected by one family member in particular. He finds himself close to powerless not to jump onto a soap box and preach about his most recent epiphany. His attitude is generally that he doesn’t know everything, but he knows just enough more than you to tell you why you’re wrong.

Of course he would never say it like that, it’s just that from his POV, he feels the weight of how ignorant he thinks he once was (and everyone else still is). He’s just trying to help you!

The tough thing for me is that for all of his perpetual outrage that no one will stop and appreciate the NUANCE of a topic, he shuts down if I try to discuss that nuance. It’s left me concluding I really need to back off from conversations like this with people like him because even where we agree, the way we reach and discuss our conclusions makes dialogue too hard.

For me, the way we reach our conclusions generally is far more important than the conclusion itself. Yeah, I agree to disagree with people all the time, but I haven’t decided my conclusion about anything. This is just the best answer I have at the time, but I accept that new information might over time throw everything I believe into question. I lean into the uncertainty. I embrace how ignorant and stupid I am about a great many things.

But he seems compulsively reaching for the right conclusion, the position that holds the least ignorance, the most certainty, the one he can hold on to and preach with absolute confidence and never ever need to doubt or question.

I remember a video I’ve lost to time that showed a woman declaring that she wished Christians would embrace the principle of Sharia Law because while Islam was wrong to enforce it, that was because Islam was wrong. In the name of Christianity? She wished Christians would be just as brutal because WE HAVE THE TRUTH.

I’ve been there, too. Not with just the big stuff, I mean all over. Science, politics, religion, nutrition, philosophy, and dumb stuff like how/whether to drive a car. Lately I think less about how wrong I think some people are and more how their arrogance and outrage (including my own) makes it impossible to have any kind of productive dialogue. These days I just try to not be the person who assumes I already know all I need to know to tell you why you’re wrong.

But it’s hard. I walk a lot and just think about things, and it’s only recently that I’m able to stop and say wtf? Why are you rehearsing arguments with x/y/z? It’s not even to formulate what hopefully is a better articulated argument. I’m just intoxicating myself on outrage and plans to dunk on morons.

2 Likes
269

I get the feeling that certain family members are kind of probing me with their stupid bullshit to see if I argue with them (antifa beating people up conspiracy theories). Lately, I’ve been doing the old troll-and-run where I just say that I don’t care about any of their grievances.

I don’t argue. I don’t disagree. I don’t actively antagonize them. For example, when that antifa beating people up thing came up, I didn’t say that I was happy about it to piss them off. I listen just enough to get the gist then tell them that I don’t care before changing the topic to something non-politics related.

Why? Because they’re dying to argue with people over stupid culture bullshit and any response aside from ignoring them plays into their hands. Deep down, these people are miserable and only want others around them to feel miserable.

2 Likes
270

Honestly I just laugh and play the whataboutism game.

“Oh antifa is beating up people? That’s terrible, but more importantly, when is Mexico paying for the wall?”

"blah blah blah"

“Oh, so tomorrow’s the big day!? Mexico’s paying for the wall tomorrow?! Wow what a great win for America!” until they STFU.

3 Likes
271

I’d rather watch them expend the energy to get angry over not being able to say Merry Christmas while I just say how little I care before moving on than make an effort to enrage them, thus creating a serious amount of awkwardness and isolating myself from my family which is almost entirely deplorable.

I don’t see my family too often so I find it best to avoid conflict. Somebody with regular contact can afford the time.

1 Like
272

Yeah I’m past the point of caring what these people think or feel or think about me. Fuck em. And frankly you have it wrong - you see your family every day. You don’t see your relatives too often.

2 Likes
273

Actually I don’t. I literally live thousands of miles away from my family.

274

visiting my mother for christmas, and when i told her i was coming she reminded me that my godmother is coming into town on the 1st. i will definitely be leaving prior to that now… she’s a “muslims are secretly taking over the world with sharia law” type.

two years or so ago i was seeing a muslim girl and i think it about gave her a heart attack when she found out, it didnt last long enough for me to introduce them, but that would have been one of my favorite moments…

2 Likes
275

Yeah I try to basically bail out of contact with most of my family but Christmas is simply unavoidable. Plus, my sisters are totally awesome. While they aren’t as far left as me economically and tend to keep quiet about politics around basically everybody, they definitely aren’t close to deplorable given that they both work in social services. They deal with groups of people that Trump villifies as their full-time job.

Unfortunately, I do have to suck it up. I’ve been invited to dinner with my mother and her boyfriend. I generally go and stay friendly Thankfully, he’s smart enough to do the same though occasionally something slips out. The guy is the archetype of a resident of The Villages mentioned in Chapo Trap House. Way worse than my mother.

276

I think his point was that while your literal family (i.e, your relatives) may live thousands of miles away, your “family” that counts are the people you see every day (even if you’re not actually related to them).

This is probably true for a lot of people but not everyone.

3 Likes
277

superuberbob is a nomad. Grue means his family is the other hobos.

1 Like
278

100%. I deal with enough misery at work, I’m goddam sure not volunteering for it around the holidays.

I said, hopefully, looking for the holidays in a small farm town in Wisconsin. At least there’s a bowl game Xmas Eve.

MM MD

2 Likes
279

Hoping to stop that nomadic phase. Prague’s pretty cool, although it is expensive if you’re operating on a Czech salary. Thankfully, I don’t have any debts and my living costs are really low. So I can come out with spare cash.

From the outside, it appears that working in basically any profession in America seems like a nightmare for millennials. No labor rights, no overtime, almost no vacation, weak or non-existent unions and no health insurance (or shitty health insurance) creates a state of wage slavery for all but those born into wealth. It honestly seems miserable. Meanwhile, wages are consistently going up in the CR while income inequality is the 2nd lowest in the OECD (only Slovakia is better).

That said, Americans are far more well-mannered and friendly in general than in the CR. Definitely more sociable and outgoing. It appears far easier to fit in as an expat or immigrant than the CR where racism can be so casual among locals that you don’t immediately notice it.

1 Like
280

Health care is pretty much one of the few options - if you’re a doc the money is pretty good, and the work is interesting. Nurses make pretty good money - in Nevada RN pay is north of 80K and most hospitals are unionized (one of the few areas of growth for unions, I think)

From what I’ve seen most of the union efforts are being expended for work conditions/patient load rather than pay.

MM MD

281

Call her your Allahmother to her face and report back with results please.

6 Likes
282

Staying in my mother’s house for a bit and I can hear the FOX News straight through the walls.

I hear about how shitty it is from all of you but it’s been years since I took the time to hear what was actually being said. I’d have to go back to the mid 2000s to find a time where I willingly sat down to watch some of their shows.

After sitting down, I realized two things:

  1. It’s nothing like it was - In the mid-2000s, FOX News put up the front of being news. Sure, there was a right-wing spin on it but it did provide actual news. Sometimes it wasn’t even biased to the right. Now, the news part fucks off. They’re not even trying anymore. Even what is “news” is just feeding right-wing talking points and conspiracy theories to viewers. I know it’s nothing new for you, but I’ve been living in countries where my access to it is limited. So, it is new to me.

  2. It’s neither entertaining nor informative - With the format of the show, I simply don’t see how anything is gained. You’ve got upwards of 8 people on one screen shouting their talking points over each other and all the crosstalk makes it nearly impossible for a coherent message to come out when it does. Personally, I don’t see how any of this has any entertainment value at all. Somehow, they have viewers.

It is actually depressing to see this being piped into the skulls of these people. Their viewers weren’t always awful human beings. FOX News wasn’t around when they were kids. But now it is and it has atrophied their brain to the point where it simply no longer functions beyond the information that allows them to survive to see another day of it.

5 Likes
283

What’s interesting about deplorables is that once you corner them with a point that they can’t disagree with without going against what they believe, the cognitive dissonance causes them to shut down any sort of discussion.

She brought up bootstrapping and people earning things their way and I said that was total nonsense by stating that people in power are pushing that idea and using it to increase their own wealth at the expense of the middle and lower class. They get it by pushing laws that make themselves richer and more powerful while making us poorer. It’s what those in power want: more power.

silence

Mother: “You know what we’ll never agree. You’re just a liberal live or die.”

Just amazing. Like how can anybody disagree with what I’m saying? I just don’t know what the argument would be.

Man if agreeing with that shit my mother believes is required to be conservative, I’d rather just die. Fuck living.

284

This is 100% my experience too. My mom’s favorite line is “I can talk politics with anyone but you,” and I’m the only liberal in my family. She gets all her “points” in and as soon as I attempt to respond she just shuts me down and says we can’t talk about politics.

1 Like
285

Damn, the only liberal in the entire family. That’s rough.

Another interesting thing is the interrupting that goes on. It really sounds like something picked up from FOX News since their shows seem to center around it. Anytime you disagree they’re almost immediately interrupting you exactly the way they hear it on the shows. I mean it’s not just the talking points; it’s the mannerisms too.

286

You guys are bad at this. Do not engage them in good faith. Them: “Blah blah blah bootstraps” You: “Should they get a small million dollar loan from their parents like Donald Trump?”

1 Like
287

Would normally do so but I am staying in this person’s home.