Honestly I’m anti confrontation so my family was kind of surprised too.
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That makes it so much better! lol
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The story makes me less sad when I imagine celebrities playing your role, such as Larry David.
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Don’t you have coronavirus?
I was medically cleared back on the 15th (but still isolated unit the 18th).
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I’m following up on a post that I made in the POTUS Bowl thread, but figured it’s better placed here. A good number of posters were able to share good insight, but I now have an update, so I’m crowd-sourcing again.
The first thing we asked her were what her most important issues were, so that we can address those. Her response:
"Healthcare is important. I donât think that Obamacare is as bad as it is made out to be. I am not in favor of removing a private option.
I also think that immigration reform is needed. I donât think we should kick out all of the illegals but I also think there needs to be a clear path to citizenship and defined penalties for circumventing that path.
I am not in favor of overturning Roe v Wade but I also think that on demand abortions should be limited to the first trimester.
I guess those are my three biggies."
My friend and I feel confident addressing the abortion topic, because our extended families are very prolife, so we’ve been having those convos for years.
Pro-Biden arguments and/or insight on the immigration and healthcare appreciated.
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On healthcare it sounds like she damn near fully agrees with Biden. So just point that out. Say that private insurance companies definitely need some actual competition as they aren’t doing a very good job negotiating for better rates on healthcare without it. Talk about the big discount you got by negotiating a cash rate with a healthcare provider and then ask what the insurance company is even for if they can’t do better buying that much of it than you can do off the street. Say the good health insurance companies will do fine, and the crappy plans she’d never pick because they aren’t a good value won’t, and that’s capitalism.
Immigration reform again I think you just straight up agree with her and point out that the Obama administration fully enforced the immigration laws on the books despite them being terrible. Point out that immigration reform is the solution, but this election isn’t even about that really.
On pro life just point out that Joe Biden is a Catholic and that if the GOP made the offer to limit on demand abortion to the first trimester in exchange for universal access that’s probably something that could be sold to the moderate wing of the Democratic party, who honestly call the shots. It’s true. Obviously exceptions for incest and the life of the mother, but you know she isn’t trying to have women die so that their nonviable pregnancy finishes ‘naturally’. I only type this because I don’t think you should actively disagree with her on anything.
This person is super gettable imo. She’s already done all the work. Make sure you conclude with pointing out that even though she might disagree with Biden on the details of a few things Trump is massively off the reservation with no plan to get back. Point out that COVID is at 4 going on 5 Vietnams worth of death so far with absolutely no end in sight, and that if Trump is reelected it’s going to be 500k+ dead when this is all over… because that’s where we’re trending to without anything to stop it.
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“Then you’ll love Joe Biden’s plan. He wants to strengthen Obamacare, protect private insurance and add a public option. It’s a best of both worlds approach.”
(Don’t @ me people I’m trying to help him win over a Republican voter.)
This is a lot like the Democratic approach - giving undocumented immigrants here a path to citizenship, expanding legal immigration and stopping illegal immigration.
The Supreme Court will likely overturn Roe next year thanks to Trump’s newest nominee. Laws vary by state, but it’s important to know that nobody wants more abortion, and Democratic administrations over the last 30 years have had fewer abortions than Republican ones by expanding access to contraceptives and reducing unwanted pregnancies.
Agreed. Her views are a pretty good match for Joe’s.
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Re: Healthcare. I think Biden can make a pretty effective pitch to someone with her views. Basically, reinforce her instincts that the ACA did some good stuff (preexisting conditions protections, letting young adults stay on their parents’ plans, etc.), but that Biden realizes that it wasn’t perfect, so he wants to make it better.
His proposals would:
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allow more negotiation with healthcare providers and drug companies to get lower prices
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change the subsidy formula so that middle class families pay less of their income in premiums
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give more access to a government option for those that want it which will provide more competition for the private companies.
Basically, your goal should be to emphasize that Joe generally believes in market mechanisms, but he just thinks that some aspects of the healthcare market are out of whack, so he wants to do things that will make the market run more smoothly.
Also, I think this article might resonate, but you have a better read on how she feels about Obama and the salaries discussed here.
Cliffs: When Beau got sick with cancer, Biden told Barack that he might sell his house in order to support Beau’s family. Barack told Joe not to sell and offered his own assistance if necessary. Joe and Jill ultimately didn’t sell the house. However, I think the story illustrates that Joe is in touch with the financial pressures that an illness can cause and is genuinely driven to lessen that burden.
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Some of this feels like a repeat of conversations that I had with Trump voters pre-election in 2016. I’d ask them about specific policies that they wanted to see regarding immigration and healthcare, and they’d basically rattle off HRC’s platform without realizing it. (I wasn’t dealing with the type of deplorable Trump voter that would buy a brick for the wall for $19.99 or whatever)
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You may need to elicit her values for a POTUS and talk about them. What’s a good leader to her? Then talk about how Joe is strong/calm/compassionate/smart/fearless/whatever she says.
1 and 2 are basically the mainstream Democratic Party position.
As for the abortion concern, just play that Pete Buttigieg clip that was posted here a week or two ago.
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Saying that Biden basically wants to maintain Obamacare seems like the easiest thing. He obviously would like to improve it while protecting it and his history shows a willingness to work with Republicans. The question is whether Republicans are willing to work with him or if they just want to repeal it. Remind her that they are trying to use the courts to challenge Obamacare and ACB’s confirmation is a step towards success for them.
Since she used the term “illegals” when talking about immigration, it is possible that using liberal language such as “undocumented” will hamper your attempts to talk to her.
I’d respect her views on abortion and not try to change her mind on that.
Overall, I’d suggest understanding her framing and create a narrative for Joe Biden that conflicts as little as possible with that framing, even if it means you are trying to get her to do the right thing for the wrong reasons. Policy is overrated. You need to get her to believe that Biden’s worldview is closer to her than Trump’s.
It sounds like she wants compromises. You should be showing her how Democrats are more willing to compromise, while priming her to expect Republicans to reject any proffered olive branch. Tell her that you disagree with Biden on some issues, but at his heart he is a decent and fair man who would listen to Republicans if they negotiated in good faith, but you have doubts that Republicans will ever do that, based on past history.
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I think this would work very well if you offer clear frames for each point like this.
Okay, let’s talk about policy: healthcare, abortion, etc.
Okay, let’s talk about the character/morality of the person.
Okay, let’s talk about what they’ve accomplished lifetime, good and bad.
Okay, let’s talk about what specifically are reasonable expectations for either administration.
If you make a persuasive point in one category, sit with that common ground for a second. Then transition to the next category.
One thing you want to be careful about is not to center any of this so that it calls the person’s IDENTITY into question or conflict. People will react defensively in that situation even if they agree with you.
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Abortion numbers have already been steadily declining.
The overwhelming number of abortions happen during the first trimester.
Those 1.4% later abortions will be almost exclusively cases were the life of the mother is at risk and/or the fetus isn’t viable.
although I’d suggest finding a source other than PP for those numbers.
Additionally the best way to prevent abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies through sexual education and access to contraceptives which are supported by Dems and opposed by Reps.
What won’t prevent abortions is criminalizing them. This will only restrict somewhat safe abortions to rich women and force poor women into back alleys.
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what types of abortions are there OTHER than “on-demand”???
I understand on-demand as lacking a medical or criminal indication.
Abortion “on demand” means abortion for any reason at any time. The majority of Americans want abortion to be legal in some but not all circumstances. They think abortion should be legal if the health of the mother is involved. They generally don’t think it should be illegal if the woman feels she cannot afford to raise a child or to select the sex of the baby.
A big part of this that no one ever understands is that an abortion is a pretty drastic and horrible experience. There’s not a lot of people just out getting them for frivolous or irresponsible reasons.
I once helped someone through their abortion through pill and it was like a 2 day ordeal that made her feel like she was dying. She had hormonal problems for months and months afterward. It’s not a walk in the park. Then there’s sometimes lasting psychological issues that stem from the experience.
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guys I get what it means the point is that we shouldn’t concede this language to them. it basically legitimizes their nosing into the woman’s business
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