Im not an expert, but research on reinfection severity sort of ongoing and mixed.
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They are pretty social. He goes out for coffee with the other old men that used to run the town. They go out to eat. She has young local great grandkids (too young to vax). County was massively for trump so I assume that vaccination rates are low.
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I donât think these tests will definitively tell you what youâre looking for:
https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2021/08/can-test-tell-vaccine-worked
Itâs very dicey to say the vaccine didnât work from antibody tests alone.
You need the specific antibodies, probably only a research lab?
I grunched like 50 posts. Nothing personal was meant.
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Its structural perfection is matched only by its hostility.
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thereâs no universality, bro, in negotiation 
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Iâm quite sure no one wants you to not do this.
Im curious too. Im sort of thinking that a lot behavior is relatively safe at this point if you are wearing a proper mask the whole time indoors and can rapid test (so not indoor dining given that limitation, but feel kind of OK going to the supermarket again or even meeting at work when I have an N95 on the whole time and I have dabbled in outdoor dining in certain places after rapid test even though I know it isnt risk free), but if that is wrong would sort of like to know.
JT believe it or not thereâs more literature on viral loads than the single article you posted, and the exact thing I posted was that evidence was mixed, but likely lower, which is perfectly in line with what was posted.
The later article you post actually supports my position, as it examines how well a fully vaccinated person who is already infected with covid spreads covid. The fact that thereâs any effect at all on this supports my position, as thereâs an additional very large affect of never getting infected in the first place.
This is why I get frustrated with you. You donât understand something but approach this with near zero humility. Letâs go over the article you posted:
Previous studies have found that people infected with Delta have roughly the same levels of viral genetic materials in their noses regardless of whether theyâd previously been vaccinated, suggesting that vaccinated and unvaccinated people might be equally infectious2. But studies also suggest that vaccinated people are less likely to spread the virus if they subsequently catch Delta: their levels of nasal virus drop faster than do those of unvaccinated infected people, and their nasal swabs contain smaller amounts of infectious virus.
In studies conducted before the emergence of the Delta variant, data from multiple studies in different countries suggested that people vaccinated with mRNA COVID-19 vaccines who develop COVID-19 generally have a lower viral load than unvaccinated people.(157, 165-169) This observation may indicate reduced transmissibility, as viral load has been identified as a key driver of transmission.(170) Studies from multiple countries found significantly reduced likelihood of transmission to household contacts from people infected with SARS-CoV-2 who were previously vaccinated for COVID-19.(171-176) For the Delta variant, early data indicate vaccinated and unvaccinated persons infected with Delta have similar levels of viral RNA and culturable virus detected, indicating that some vaccinated people infected with the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 may be able to transmit the virus to others.(163, 164, 177-180) However, other studies have shown a more rapid decline in viral RNA and culturable virus in fully vaccinated people (96, 177, 180-182). One study observed that Delta infection in fully vaccinated persons was associated with significantly less transmission to contacts than persons who were unvaccinated or partially vaccinated.
Together, these studies suggest that vaccinated people who become infected with Delta have potential to be less infectious than infected unvaccinated people. However, more data are needed to understand how viral shedding and transmission from fully vaccinated persons are affected by SARS-CoV-2 variants, time since vaccination, and other factors, particularly as transmission dynamics may vary based on the extent of exposure to the infected vaccinated person and the setting in which the exposure occurs. Additional data collection and studies are underway to understand the extent and duration of transmissibility of Delta variant SARS-CoV-2 in the United States and other countries.
What I said, âEvidence is mixed on this one, likely viral load is lowerâ is exactly right.
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That was sort of my understanding too (the broad conclusion) with a big caveat that we dont know exactly how waning immunity works to increase the risk of vaxxed transmission. The evidence sort of reads to me like âvaccinatedâ and âunvaccinatedâ is much too simple at this point to describe how a person is protected from getting, suffering from, or transmitting COVID.
As one example, gun to head, I would bet that 12 months from now we are viewing at least Moderna and Pfizer as three shot vaccines and we are all currently in some sort of in between place between unvaccinated and fully vaccinated.
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Part one of the multipart âI wonder if JT thought of that?â series:
Yep
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Evidence is mixed, viral loads likely lower is what I said. Chopping off that part of the quote is just dishonest. The quote you later say contradicts me does not contradict what I said at all. It also finds lower loads later on. Come on dude. You canât just chop off the âevidence is mixedâ and all data from pre-delta covid literature. Thatâs not how evidence based medicine works.
Most importantly, no one really gives a shit about viral load, they care about transmissibility as itâs a patient oriented outcome, which is found to be lower. While thereâs not a clear proven 1:1 ratio between transmissibility and viral load, germ theory would suggest that they are related. Not finding differences between viral load while finding transmissibility prevention suggests that the viral load work needs more data.
Itâs possible, but not likely, that vaccinated people and unvaccinated people shed the same amount of virus but vaccinated people transmit less often. There almost certainly is a behavioral confounder that makes vaccinated people less likely to spread covid OR vaccinated people have a lower viral load. Since viral load is also typically related to the severity of disease, I think the lower viral load is more likely. Obviously, this isnât certain.
uhhhh⌠that quote from JT does not, in fact, demonstrate that he thought of that. Nor do I say he didnât think of that anyways.
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The reason why you get various assertions about transmissibility being lower and not getting infected stopping spread is that these basic facts are not properly incorporated into your arguments. Those reasons are why assessing the risk of unvaccinated children in an enclosed tight quartered space is not comparable to the risk of vaccinated adults who donât spend nearly as much time in confined quarters with other unvaccinated adults.
Youâre also dead wrong about viral loads. Patient centered outcomes are what are important. Things like viral loads are used as proxies to try to get to PCOs as PCOs are typically quite difficult to measure. You can see my earlier post as to why I think itâs likely that viral loads are lower in vaccinated people (itâs that they transmit less and are less sick, usually those things are are in lower viral loads, plus the papers cited showing lower viral loads)
Iâll leave it at that.
Sure seems like youâre accusing me of underestimating the risk of vaccinated people for the same reasons people underestimate the risk of children. Those things about transmissibility being lower because they donât get it as often and are less likely to spread are why those concerns are not valid. Youâll have to forgive me for thinking you donât understand those things when they should change your position.
Anyways, Iâm done really on this topic.
convalescent plausma
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Well I tried.
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Remember how huge parts of the Chicago PD were going to quit?
https://twitter.com/BauerJournalism/status/1450573128472662017
Whoops.
In disheartening news, 30 techs/nurses in my ER have âreligious exemptionsâ from the covid vaccine. Itâs about 1/5th of the staff. The few Iâve talked to are lying. I wish I understood this better, they arenât bad people and most arenât super conservative. Good news is that the vast majority of them already had covid I suppose.
Iâm pretty tight with these people, so they talk to me. Their reasons are varied. One is concerned about fertility stuff. Most just donât want it after getting covid. A few donât understand the science stuff.
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