How many times do we need to explain that isn’t what herd immunity means?
He’s invested 1.75B into coronavirus vaccine development and distribution.
That’s more than talk
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Explain it to me like I’m an idiot (I am). If everyone in a household is infected then all members of that household should have some level of immunity based on what we currently know, correct? What if that household had 130 members? I understand that I’m not using the term herd immunity correctly but I don’t think that really pertains to the question I’m asking.
Nope. Just a standard day in December 2020 America.
So what’s the play here? Do you just give her dose two in a hospital with an epi pen on hand and a ventillator nearby? Seems like the risk of her dying of anaphylaxis is low if they’re literally sitting there waiting for it. Will the vaccine work the same?
I’m sure it hasn’t been studied for this vaccine, but I imagine it may be studied for other vaccines. For example, if you have an allergic reaction to a tetanus shot, does it still confer any immunity?
EDIT: Ok so after reading subsequent posts it seems that her reaction was not exactly mild. So, I doubt they would think about giving it to her again. Nevertheless, it would still be interesting to know if the vaccine otherwise works the same in people who have an allergic reaction to one of the components.
From CDC
“Community immunity: A situation in which a sufficient proportion of a population is immune to an infectious disease (through vaccination and/or prior illness) to make its spread from person to person unlikely. Even individuals not vaccinated (such as newborns and those with chronic illnesses) are offered some protection because the disease has little opportunity to spread within the community. Also known as herd immunity.”
The problem with your definition is that the people you work with are not a contained community. The actual circle is them, their families, their kids schools, church, clubs, restaurants and whatever they do collectively.
Could you have a high enough number of people at work with immunity that a sustain a transmission chain and therefore a non immune member has some decreased risk while at work? Sure. But since the community is much larger that is not really herd/community immunity.
We can imagine a scenario where a single person that has zero interactions outside of your office has some decreased risk because of a high number of immunes at work.
So yes definition is tricky, but it generally means (as advertised by the herd immunity advocates) that overall the transmission in the community as a whole is reduced. Not just for some small subset.
The best example is near universal childhood vaccinations. At 95% type rates, there is very little community incidence of measles which protects kids that can’t (or won’t) get vaccinated. When that drops below 90% then outbreaks do occur, again typically in areas with higher numbers of anti-vaxxers.
The numbers discussed for Covid tend to start lower but still in the 70% range at best.
As the measles example shows, most of the benefit comes at the high end. Drop by a relative few% and spread occurs.
Given our mobile and well mixed society, herd immunity that is sufficient to stop significant spread occurs in the context of universal vaccination.
Does this help?
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I think you guys are taking crunchy’s question way too literally.
All he is really wondering about is whether this means if all or almost all of the people at his workplace have already been pozzed.
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Yes, that was a good answer. In our modern mobile society, “herd immunity” = “Vaccines”.
The recommendation I saw on the news is that if you have covid risk factors you should go ahead and get the vaccine but do it in a monitored setting with epi handy. When my wife gets her allergy shots she has to hang out for some period (30 minutes?) to make sure no problem.
They did not discuss if you have an unexpected reaction to the first shot if you should not get the 2nd shot.
I’d guess they would check your antibodies after the first shot and then weigh your risk factors vs the vaccine risk.
Having once had a reaction to medication that required epi I would have a hard time getting the second shot.
Flu shots and the shingles vaccine both knocked me on my but with fever and body pain for 24-48 hours so I expect that with this vaccine. I will plan ahead.
Yes sir, and I shouldn’t have used the term herd immunity in the OP, and ofc I understand that it’s not an actual strategy for dealing with the virus. All I’m saying is that in my very specific, somewhat unusual situation that a few of us got sick, then a lot of us got sick, and now nobody is sick.
I’m fist pumping on the day I can get the jab
We can already do a back of the envelope calculation for risk. Let say that the risk of death from COVID is 1% and the chance of contracting it in a high risk environment is 50%. I’m just pulling numbers out of my ass here.
So we are at roughly 0.5% chance of death from COVID. If you are already in the hospital with access to a ventillator and have an epi pen at the ready, I’d guess the chance of death from anaphylaxis is far less than that. Anaphylaxis isn’t COVID. Doctors, probably know exactly how to treat that very effectively, especially if there is no delay.
I’d guess that it’s more behavior based. People that tested positive or knew they had potential exposure self isolated which knocked out the transmission chain. Since then those not positive have likely been a bit more careful after the scare.
If that happened collectively in the community outside of work, then the odds that it gets reintroduced at work is lower as well
But it’s still all just probability.
No worries. The problem is that herd immunity as a strategy and just letting the virus rip is a sore spot with science and doc folk.
There probably are isolated groups and instances where it may happen that a high percent immune provides some group protection but it’s neither long term nor society wide. It’s not impossible that your work is getting a temporary benefit but it’s probably more likely to be as described or at best temporary as no one at work is likely that isolated for long.
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Oh boy
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If you can get it again after getting it then no herd immunity from natural infections
But with a vaccine you can just get a booster shot every year or whatever and we have herd immunity
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For the low price of $1500 a seat? They gotta pay That commissioner salary?
Good times in the ER today. I had 8 vents running at once. I’ve never seen more than 5, and 3 of those were traumas from the same car accident. We had zero beds in the ICUs for hours today. They had to shuffle their least critical patients to our step down units. It’s a fucking nightmare trying to do all my normal shit and run that many vents.
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God damn. That sucks man I’m sorry. Thanks for being there.
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Using the term herd immunity to mean something sort of like limited herd immunity-like effects within a very specific population is a capital offense around here mister. No amount of explaining what you really meant is sufficient. Enjoy your turn in the barrel.
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Unlike MAGAts, we know that words have meanings and misunderstanding herd immunity or other covid stuff can lead to deadly decisions.
So yes, in the covid thread, one of the best sources of info on this pandemic, we are going to use the right definitions.
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