Your not a nurse are you? A doctor right? Perhaps you’re right, but perhaps you’re not the right person to ask and not even as good as the spouses of nurses. And citing travelling nurses is pretty darn libertarian market zealot sounding.
I won’t disagree with some nurses being underpaid. My issue is the assumption that they don’t stand up and fight for themselves. That’s ludicrously untrue and super patronizing.
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Nurses aren’t even allowed to unionize in a bunch of states. I do get your overall point though and nurses do have a ton of power especially in Covid times.
You can argue it against being a good thing, but the point here is that lots of nurses change jobs to take higher paying jobs. I work with these nurses literally every day at work. They are very common. This is not a discussion over what you think is right or good. This is a correction of fact.
It’s a matter of degree so it can’t be simply fact as you state. No one said nurses never fight for pay and I assume you are not saying nurses never avoid a strike because they are reluctant to leave patients without help.
I think this effect is reinforced by education for older students often being more „course oriented“ (e.g. lots/ most/all(?) of American high-schools where you basically have a different group of students around you in each lesson), whereas younger students often have a more fixed group.
Obviously a more open approach offers more opportunities for viruses to spread than having fixed groups.
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Again, travelers are very common. Like literally 30% of the workforce. That doesn’t even get into how plenty of nurses change jobs all the time. Doesn’t get into how nurses are unionized at a higher rate than the nation in general. Your take is just misinformed.
I don’t think you can even state what my take is. And again, I’m taking what two spouses of nurses said as facts. On the other hand we have a doctor. If you’re just going to say “nurses change jobs a lot” and there are nursing unions as if that proves something, well, it doesn’t. I’ll just have to weigh your opinion against theirs.
You said that nurses are loathe to fight for better pay.
That is demonstrably untrue.
That’s all there really is.
YOU can’t even state what your take is.
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I know I can find your take if I read enough Ayn Rand.
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ah yes I am aware of market forces so I must be a randite
Me: COVID thread is on fire this hour. What happened? New vaccine results? Reports from hospital in the Dakotas? Trump do/say something stupid about bleach again?
(opens thread)
Oh.
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My goodness. This is bad faith imo. The origin of the whole derail was Dutch’s assertion that his wife would not strike. Now in order to discuss this we have to go over all the possible ways in which someone can fight for more pay and whether or not nurses do some or all of those things. The basic point, and the one that market zealots like pvn and maybe you are loathe to recognize, is that wanting to serve is a factor that inhibits nurses from maximizing their pay.
Now, if you want to take the absolutist argument that nurses absolutely always press for their maximum advantage without regard to how that might affect patients, feel free, because that’s essentially what you’re doing imo.
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No, it seems very fair. It’s a damn near direct quote:
This is a blatant walk back:
You are utterly uninformed on this subject. There will be no further engagement from me on this topic, but it’s important that it’s stated that your infantilization of nurses is insulting and wrong.
It may seem fair and it may nearly be a direct quote, but it’s still bad faith imo. You took what was a pretty lax conversation and turned it into some kind of a debate and then you went back and turn my characterization of what Dutch said into an absolutist statement that nurses never fight for their interests. This is really obvious to me and I think it’s obvious to you as well, hence bad faith.
Also, the “infantilization of nurses” is absolutely lol. @WichitaDM, how about having Mrs. Wichita read this convo and see what she thinks?
She works today-Sunday or I would let her read it.
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I’m just ending my care shift - two days in a row with almost no sleep. This is temporary for me. Tell her I empathize with her usual routine. Tell her that before she reads this argument and decides who to side with!
eta: I have to do it tonight too. :( It’s going to be very hard.
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I thought microbet was the solar guy?
This is a great discussion. Longer windows seem like a good idea.
But I’m just not sure what a national CFR rate gets you - given the wide disparities by state in testing availability (due largely to level of outbreak) and willingness of individuals to be tested.
Imo it just has to be more meaningful to do 50 individual analyses. National US CFR feels like a world CFR to me - not that useful.