Are military enlistees victims of the system, culpable for American imperialism, heroes, villains, or some combination of the above?

Politics & News
1

Let’s try this again, shall we?

On the one hand, America has a problem with military (and police) fetishization. On the other, a lot of people who serve in the military are good people trying to do what they think is right. They’re willing to put themselves in harm’s way when the rest of us are not.

On the one hand, they aren’t responsible for our foreign policy blunders. On the other, our foreign policy blunders are now pretty predictable. To what extent are enlisted men and women responsible for the innocent civilians that are killed by our armed forces in the name of expanding American power abroad?

What does it feel like to be a member or veteran of the American military and find out that the president and his administration lied to you and to the country and used that lie as the casus belli to send you or our troops abroad?

In light of all of that, is it wrong to enlist? Or can one still do so with a clean conscience if their motives are pure? Is that answer different for someone who is 18, 21, 25, or 30+ years old?

How does one show appreciation for what they consider to be heroic actions, while also not supporting what they consider to be wrong? I personally stand for troops when asked, but I am not falling all over myself to say “thank you for your service” nine times out of 10, because I feel weird thanking them for things I don’t think they should have been asked to do - that our country should not have done.

Let’s have an attempt at a civil discussion. I’d like to cordially invite any Unstuckers who are members of the military or have been members of the military to answer any, all or none of the above questions. The obvious one is @skydiver8, if you are so inclined to weigh in.

For our veterans/military members, I’m curious of two specific questions. Do you have an example of a time that you did something in the service that you felt was really improving the world and made you proud? Do you have an example of a time you did something in the service that you felt was wrong and made you upset?

I’ll just leave this here and people can feel free to take it in whatever direction they want. Hopefully people can judge/disparage the institutions, the policies and the collective more so than any one individual, or at least keep criticism of individuals somewhat respectful.

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2

I think an obvious place to start is that the answer changed over time. Joining the American military meant something very different in 1948 than it did in 1960 than it did in 1989 than it did in 2002 than it does today.

I also think individuals can have all sorts of motives, and that has to be more of a case-by-case basis. There are also different types of service that could be evaluated differently.

I do think beyond a certain age one has some culpability for their decisions in the context of what is clearly our foreign policy. But I also recognize that the concept of service runs deep for a lot of people, in a lot of places, and in a lot of families… and they may feel it is their duty or calling, regardless of the current foreign policies.

3

Not going to be a popular opinion, but I don’t think joining the military is that much different in that sense than choosing to live in the US and pay taxes.

EDIT because people seem to misunderstand me – BOTH THINGS ARE OKAY in my opinion.

5

Not many, but a lot do and I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a big overlap between people with means to live outside the US and people who think military personal are culpable for American imperialism.

That being said, I probably wouldn’t be friends with anyone who is really into military shit. This is more of a concern where I’m from, as it’s pretty common to have that type of behavior.

6

Too bad it’s pretty much impossible for most people born in the US to leave for another country and still be eligible for work. I can’t even go to Canada despite having family there.

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7

Do you have any idea how hard it is for the average person to get out of the US? JFC

8

lol

9

Enlighten us

10

I live in a foreign country and haven’t seen my family for over 2 years mainly because I don’t want my son to serve in the army as it’s mandatory where I’m from. It’s not easy or fun, but you can’t have it both ways. If you think that serving in the military makes you culpable for American imperialism and aren’t actively looking for a way to move to another country, you are full of shit.

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11

You didn’t answer the question.

Name a western social democracy I can emigrate to. I’m all ears.

12

if you want to have a conversation you are welcome. If not you can move along.

13

lol

14

lol it literally took you 2 posts to be racist. well played.

15

What the fuck are you taking about?

16

Israel I’m guessing from your username?

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How many have you tried? I’m here on a J visa. Did you attempt to get a visa in any country? Did you check the requirements of each and every country? What exactly constitute as a “western” country for you? How hard have you tried to find a place for you or your family outside the US?

I’m not saying it’s wrong to live in the US, I actively am attempting to do so. I’m sacrificing a shitload to get my son out of the army and I am very much failing at it and most likely going to go back.

You have people in this forum who live in Uruguay, Mexico and Czech Republic and will be happy to help you with information you might need to relocate, if this is your goal.

18

Just lol. I’m done with your pompous, self-righteous douchebag routine. Seems to be a lot of that going around the non-‘mericans lately. Cheers mate.

19

so you say every single person in the US army is a war criminal and I’M the self righteous one? Gjge.

Since you seem extremely slow, I’m saying it’s fine to serve in the army. I wouldn’t do it, but I can’t fault anyone who does while supporting the system.

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21

I don’t see why anyone would be upset by this, but it’s a pretty big difference being born in the US and not choosing it (well, you choose it) and being threatened with jail, penalties, and confiscation of the money anyway if you don’t pay taxes vs choosing to join the military.

Eta: also, pretty much all counties suck.

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22

I don’t have money, but that’s not why I stay. I have responsibilities.

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