I think it was optional. I took it because I do well on tests. I did well and then told a recruiter who called that I wasn’t interested in the military.
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Wtf. Lol Florida as always. I got calls/mail from the military for years after that because I scored well.
To bring things around, we are discussing nuances of a highly functional military and how it relates to US class strata, but my sense is that the Russian conscripts who sign a contract to stay on for another year after conscription are not the near equivalent of the worst enlisted US military recruits. Put these people in a much worse training, social, and command and control situation, and they do not flourish on the battlefield.
I saw a statistic that of a sample of confirmed dead many were from poor rural areas and only one was from the moscow district.
I can’t remember whether I ever talked with anyone directly, but I just remember they wouldn’t take a hint.
I was military-skeptical but thought I might be interested in an academy, mainly because it was a free prestigious college, but my parents could pay for college, I didn’t come from a military family, and I was pretty anti-authoritarian by the time I was 16. And my congressman was a right wing nut job. I think I had one phone call with a recruiter and said I wanted to study philosophy or something.
From my knowledge of western military history and doctrine, it seems like Russia’s operational doctrine and structure is similar to how ours was (and the Brits/French/Prussians before that) up until ~WWI.
That war taught us to adapt and allow our field commanders to do the same. apparently Russia did not learn the same lessons.
We made leaps and bounds in doctrine and theory in and after WWII, and i think the development of a strong air force was a big part of it. “Flexibility is the key to airpower” is one my favorite quotes, and that type of thinking really spread throughout our entire military. Obviously, the stark difference between us and Russia is rearing its head now.
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I think lawyers are more than primarily farmed out. They might be exclusively farmed out. It’s possible to have an entirely military medical education. So at least some of the doctors are grown in house. However, I don’t think there is a military law school, so they have to get the lawyers from outside.
Only “military lawyer” I know got law school paid for by the coast guard after he did ROTC and served for a while.
My fancy law school didn’t permit the military to recruit when I was there, and I think the the interest would have been low.
My sense is that most military lawyers get their law school paid for after they are already officers.
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I always thought that was one of the more far fetched parts of A Few Good Men. What Harvard Law School grad is going to join the JAG corps?
Thanks. Never heard of that place before.
I feel like we were already playing with this at at least down to the brigade level by the Civil War. One of the things Grant and Lee both did fairly well was select/promote talented subordinates and delegate everything tactical at the corps level with nothing more than an overall objective.
The question I have is when this obviously strong ‘let the people closest to the ground make the tactical calls’ made it all the way to ground.
Thanks for this. Useful post
For reference so we are on the same page. What do you mean by “firmly middle class” and “upper class”?
My parents could not afford to fully pay for an out of state college unless I got help. But we weren’t going hungry, either. I honestly don’t know their income back then, but this was also the very early 90’s and things were quite different in this country. A family of 5 that made less than 100k a year could survive just fine. Maybe not pay for college for three kids, but survive.
Obviously my personal memories of the time are clouding my judgement, but the rich kids who could pay to go Harvard or Yale are what I would have called upper class back then.
have you guys heard of the communist West Point caset who graduated but then forced out of the army? it was probably more sensationalist than reality, but still an interesting story.
fwiw, i know a person whose sister was at the naval academy and now serves on a sub with 6 month total silence deployments. just listening to his family perspective is crazy shit.
Interested in why you wouldnt use the term “working class”?
Actually, looking into this further, it may not qualify. They don’t offer JD degrees. So you would have to go to a civilian law school to get that first. Then you can get a Masters degree from there.
They aren’t going to say no, but they are still going to strongly encourage OTS. Just like in the civilian sector, recruiters are like HR, and they know if they sign you up for something you’re overqualified for, no matter how cool it sees now, the likelihood that you’ll leave sooner rather than later for greener and more challenging pastures is much higher.
Nope. Gotta get your GED first. But they probably have programs that will help you do that.
One of the big reasons is time. Promotions when you’re enlisted come based on passage of a test after a little bit of time (6-months to a year or so) at your current rank. Promotions when you’re an officer are solely time+merit/performance based, with an “up-or-out” rule.
Here’s a couple links to explain. The enlisted one is Army-based, but most services are the same.
If you make it to E-6 (Staff Sergeant or equivalent), you have some responsibility, some folks under you, and some decent pay and respect. If you go to OTS at this point, you’re back to the lowest rung (2LT or Ensign), no responsibility, not a lot of respect, and you have to spend 2 years there before you get another raise/promotion.
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I don’t know. It’s not bias. I doubt you’d think their jobs would fit in that category. But 30 years ago, I guarantee you they made less money than what skilled tradespeople make now (what we might consider “working class”. It’s really hard to compare when salaries for my parents’ professions have increased so much over the past couple of decades.
My Dad was a college professor and my mom was a staff physical therapist at the local hospital. Their combined income was probably around 80k per year but I can’t be sure. I recall my mom going on strike when i was in elementary school, and I know she made less than the RNs at the time. When she got her degree, PTs only got a bachelor’s. Now it’s a whole masters program to work at the same level she did.
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