About Moderation (old original thread)

[d2_e4]

@RegretS

Honestly, if you think back to 22 there was always a group that cried about moderation they just don’t have Mason to cry to any more. Sometimes I was even in this group although I never really went to ATF to handle my issues.

The people who are the most vocal in that thread (by the metric of % of posts) are crying and attacking mods for implementing a rule that hasn’t been implemented. People voted. The side of good and justice lost. We’ll get another shot soon and reason will prevail next time.

So keep meming witty things like that makes things true. People trying to apply justice fairly can tell the difference. Saying something funny doesn’t make it true.

The forest I lit was going to spontaneously combust any second anyway, even though it had been entirely fire-free for 23 days, but let’s focus on the bigger picture here, guys - what terrible people all the people who disagree with me are.

[Jalfrezi]

I’m too scared to like your post now.

[d2_e4]

Don’t worry, clique-buddy, it’s implied.

[Jalfrezi]

[nobody]

@SensiblePerson

FWIW, the bolded is a big part of why I didn’t press ahead with my offer to help with admin duties.

I mean, it’s clear that different people have different visions of what they want this forum to be. Many of the most vocal posters in threads like this seem to want a rather juvenile 2p2-like environment where insults, trolling, and other more and less subtle ways of being a jerk are allowed.

I think though that with the variety of intelligent, knowledgeable, and thoughtful people here the forum could become something much more rare and special. Sadly (for me), I don’t see that happening any time soon. The forum as it exists isn’t worth expending more of my precious (to me) and limited time and energy on.

Anyway, probably no one will give a shit, but since everyone else seems to feel free to say whatever they want, I thought I’d throw that out there.

@MrWookie

Anyway, let’s say we envision the quality of posting here as a normal distribution centered at some level of quality and with tails extending into both low and high quality. As a mod, my hope would be that knocking out some of the lowest of the low quality tail doesn’t merely eliminate that much from the distribution but perhaps even shifts the whole thing to the positive direction a bit and serves as a buttress against sliding further to the negative. Maybe we can only get away with eliminating the worst of the worst and still having an abundance of stuff just slightly better than that.

I kind of asked this last night and was hoping more posters would give their opinion.

@nobody

Its a good thing for the forum but it makes me confused on why people are saying the forum sucks.

About Moderation should be what sucks but people seem to want changes in the rest of the site. And since there is not petty bickering going on it must be something else. If its high content and most people want that id like to know.

Are you guys asking for higher content? Do a lot of other people what that?

If the petty bickering is not taking over the main forum and things have been somewhat peaceful even in the moderation section until this hornets nest got kicked up again. What do people want.

Cause it seems like you are asking for higher content and you two are not the only ones who have mentioned this. CW and some others have said something along the same lines. Which is a pet peeve of mine.

For one higher content poster do have the ability to post their content to each other and ignore the rabble. For two if they really wanted it they could screen out the rabble with some kind of high content threads where the posters deemed good posters are only allowed to post.

For three and most importantly its a slap in the face of lower content posters which i included myself in. Its basically saying to quite a few posters that they should post less. Or maybe even not at all.

So basically if this is something you two and most of the forum wants id like to know. I know start a poll…

[SensiblePerson]

I went for my neighborhood walk to think about this and I’m still not quite sure what to post. I have a ton of stuff I could write but I want to keep it on point (if possible). I also want to note that I’m speaking only for myself here.

Let me start by addressing your last point first. I sincerely apologize if my post made you think that you might not be welcome as a poster. I’m not going to be able to say it as well as @seities did in his excellent post (really, it’s good, peeps who haven’t seen it should go read it), but it takes all types of posters to make a forum community great.

I’d also add that in my mind it’s not about low content vs. high content. Short or low content posts are fine–they can be amazing when done well. For me it’s more about how posts express respect vs. lack of respect, consideration vs. fuck your feelings, indifference vs. the understanding that there are real people on the other end of the conversations.

My impulse here is to lay out some examples here of what I am talking about in terms of “good” and “bad” posts, but honestly I think everyone who is an adult and been on the internet for a few years should have a good handle on this already, so I won’t. I hope what I have said helps you understand what I’m hoping for.

To put my thoughts into some context, I’ve realized that part of the reason I’ve felt so much angst and spent so much time thinking and fretting about this forum (seriously it’s a lot, too much) is that, for better or worse, it has become a big part of my social circle and community.

Like most people here, COVID has pretty much devastated my typical social situations. I’m an introvert who historically has been fine on my own, but 10 months of not seeing my family except over Zoom, not being able to hang out with my meatspace buddies, not being able to go into a taproom and BS with people there about beer and sports, and shit, even not seeing my coworkers in person has hit me pretty hard. As a result I focus a lot of my social energy and emotions on this forum, which is frankly probably not super healthy but it is what it is. (I should note here that I’m incredibly privileged to have what I do have and recognize that many people have been hit much harder.)

I say all that because what stems from it is that what I “want” is to be able to interact with the cool people here without worrying that someone will hit me with some mean-spirited comment, or feel on edge when people are bickering, or feel bad when somebody attacks another poster for no good reason.

Now, I know that many people here don’t want the same thing that I do, that’s why I wrote “different people have different visions of what they want this forum to be.” And it’s also why I have made a concious effort to say my piece about this stuff and then drop it. I know I’m not the only one whose opinion matters for this forum. And I’m also not the enforcer who polices it (we’ve seen several examples of how badly it goes when someone decides that’s their role).

I will say that I kind of agree, kind of disagree with this:

@nobody

If the petty bickering is not taking over the main forum and things have been somewhat peaceful even in the moderation section until this hornets nest got kicked up again. What do people want.

Agree that the bickering hasn’t taken over the main forum, but there has been some, enough that it bothers me. I don’t want to make a list of examples and have to litigate them, but there have been several mentioned in this thread and the C-word thread. (Actually the one that I’ll point to specifically is what has been going on in the COVID thread for months and months.)

So I hope that helps you get where I’m coming from. I do realize that my dream for the forum may be unreasonable, unattainable, and even undesirable for many, so that’s why, like I said, I’m just putting in my $0.02 and letting it go.

This post got super long in spite of me trying to keep it short, so thanks to anyone who read the whole thing. If I can clarify or expand on anything let me know.

[nobody]

Thoughtful post. Alright we don’t really disagree much other then what should be allowed. Id rather not see the insults and the rest go on but disallowing it gets messy.

[SensiblePerson]

@nobody

disallowing it gets messy

True enough! Hopefully we can muddle through it somehow.

[nobody]

@goofyballer

I didn’t respond to your question last night but the kind of petty bickering I see a lot of in the main forum is along centrist-vs.-left lines. It’s a different kind of bickering than what we have in About Unstuck, but still pops up a decent amount and sometimes flares up into dumpster fires. And sometimes the general debates across the two kinds of bickering (main forum vs. About) are really debates about very similar things, like personal attacks or harassment, even if they happen across different fractures of posters.

Fair enough. It’s going to be hard to stop the left vs dems are ok fights. Politics is heated sometimes and things get personal.

Just to add I may not like rules on personal insults and other rules to stop this kind of thing and will vote against them. But if it’s something the majority want I won’t complain, much.

[microbet]

@microbet

In California we have signs posted in many of the hills and canyons and forests about fire danger levels. It’s a warning to be careful and that some activities which might be allowed at some levels might not be allowed during higher danger levels.

Anyway, lots of bad feelings about personal attacks. It’s hot and windy and there’s a high probability of me temp banning people for the next 24 hours. That includes not just obvious attacks, but oblique attacks. It’s tricky when mods are the subject of criticism to divine whether it’s just criticism or attack, but I’m going to do my best to find a line there as well. I’m sure I won’t be perfect.

Microbet’s Special Taco Bell Extreme Modding period is over. I probably missed a few. My youngest had a root canal today (needed because she broke her front teeth rollerblading) and I took my mother and mother-in-law to Dodger Stadium to get the vaccine, so I was off line a lot. I skimmed some of the stuff I missed and saw some close calls, but it wasn’t too bad. Congrats everyone!

I hope the banned parties don’t feel too bad. It was an emergency action and I did the best I could to be fair. The line between totally not abusive and maybe a little abusive and this is indirect and hard to tell is all pretty fuzzy. There are never easy lines. Did the best I could.

Of course this doesn’t mean abuse on other posters is ok, just that it’s back to whatever it was.

Cheers.

[LouisCyphre]

You sneak in constant potshots at the US. This might be part of why your posts are received badly. Why do you do this?

[CaffeineNeeded]

@Churchill

Yes, I’m relentlessly hounded by Wookie, CN and Trolly in the Covid thread for posting mostly new info on the covid crisis. But I can and do ignore it.

Super earnest and honest question. Do you really think people really hound you for posting new information? Would you be willing to consider that it’s something else?

[microbet]

I’m not in that thread enough to know. Are people mad that Churchill constantly takes shots at the US? Before Trump, back when I was less ashamed of the US, my jimmies could get rustled by outsiders relentless ragging on us.

[LouisCyphre]

@nobody

Besides the COVID thread have people been going at each other in the politics forum?

There has been an ongoing imbroglio surrounding the usage of the words centrist and shitlib.

[LouisCyphre]

He has clearly been doing it. I can’t say for certain if any jimmies have been rustled. It’s a fair assumption that those disparaging comments did not go unnoticed.

[amead]

^ exactly

[Trolly]

Churchill annoys me but I think he mostly posts in good faith and isn’t breaking any rules.

[amead]

^ and this too. I think that’s pretty much the whole story. Def not ban worthy but definitely pokes a bit.

[Jalfrezi]

@microbet

Before Trump, back when I was less ashamed of the US, my jimmies could get rustled by outsiders relentless ragging on us.

Yes, I remember.

FWIW from what I’ve seen of his posts they’re mostly posted from reputable news sites so while there might be some element of trolling too (in a subject that should be off limits for trolling imo) I think a few people overreact because they’re arguing against a poster who got off to a bad start here, not the post.

[d2_e4]

Let’s catch up with out favourite moderator, @MrWookie, who is definitely not on a power trip, banning anyone and everyone he sees. Am I allowed to post deleted posts here? Because I’d just like everyone to see what you banned me for.