I’m not so sure about that. I’m not sure that many people on this forum held deeply thought out views on how to deal with law enforcement in this country 7 days ago. Myself included. And I oscillate on what to do next myself.
My point is we’re stuck in a trap where we say “Gee, Thing would be great, but it’s politically impossible, so we shouldn’t even talk about it. We should instead all advocate for Less Great Thing.”
The right does the exact fucking opposite thing, and wins because of it. Whereas we compromise with the right before they even ask us to.
We’re going to be the side of anarchy and hating police officers anyways in the eyes of the deplorables. We might as well get some mileage out of it.
Come on, you should know by now that it’s a hail mary pass or nothing on THIS team. It doesn’t matter that we are the 2017 Browns vs. the 1976 Steelers!
I tried for a year to inject realism around here. Good luck.
It seems like most of the Western European nations have police forces that are much less violent than ours? Or Japan? I’m obv not saying they’re perfect, but you can at least point to them as being better working models for how we might do things here.
The ebook is currently being offered for free for any of you interested in learning how we abolish the police. I haven’t read it but it’s recommended by Ruth Wilson Gilmore which is all I need to know
Why do the police abolishinists believe that a community can’t have a police force that literally protects and serves everyone without resorting to biased enforcement and excessive force?
I can only speak for myself. It is not solely a negotiating tactic, I see it as the best course of action to achieve the goal of a just, peaceful, and equitable community.
I’m really not wanting to have this debate we had ad nauseum during the primary but put me on the side of actually advocating for the change we want. This whole idea that somehow shifting far enough right that the Dems can actually pass something is exactly how we got the last 40 years of shitty legislation that you can hang around the neck of anyone who has been in congress for any length of time.
I really can’t believe people still think that is a good strategy after accomplishing nothing besides passing Republican legislation for them in the rare moments our side had power. The other consequence of it is the Dem politicians at the highest levels are all DINOS.
Hang on, you’re saying we shouldn’t run DSA candidates in purple states? But it would be so beneficial at negotiating for what we want to have no elected officials that agree even remotely with what we want.
If you want to still have capitalism, your cops are going to need to be able to do what they’ve been doing this last week. If you want to banish racism, you’re going to have to give all this up. To do anything about ny of this, you’re going to have to give up your magical faith in 218/50/whatev. Those are all facts. Sorry about that.
You’re football analogy is all whacked too. This is better…
Team capitalist is running around with their pants down and eight men on the field. All we got to do is not listen to the crazy coach who is telling us to do the victory-play.
This feels more like “M4A is good but we can’t pass it yet but we can shift public policy to the left right now so let’s do it.” Tough analogy cause the existing healthcare system is probably better than the existing criminal justice system and policing, which is one hell of a sentence. But this is kind of like doing the ACA, but maybe with the public option.
The thing is, it’s progress and if/when it doesn’t work we’re all going to be just as mad again.
Yeah I mean there are a lot of people here who genuinely want zero police, they don’t want to abolish and replace, they just want to abolish. Others want to replace with something better, which is great in the utopian timeline where we can actually achieve that.
I think anyone watching social media at this point who’s not an asshole would take starting from scratch with a new model over what we’ve got, but I don’t know if people realize the litany of challenges that presents.
I mean even forget the politics, at this point it’d be like going to a mob boss and saying “We’ve decided your entire organization is out, we’re going to replace you with a non-violent cartel from Canada. Have a good weekend, see you at brunch Sunday?”
I’ve got pro police mobs of white men with bats roaming five blocks away this week. I’ve got white dudes with AR-15s walking around like they’re patrolling a war zone. Who wants to go tell them that we’re abolishing the police? Who wants to go tell the dude making 150K/yr living in the burbs who’s a registered Dem who votes party line and see how fast he becomes a Trumper?
My ideas for reform on this issue are well left of the average Dem in Congress. I’m not saying give the cops more guns and also some manners and etiquette training.
