Yeah I don’t accept any of that as accurate.
You can get people out of the streets in a well-regulated capitalist system without having to crack skulls. Your narrative is effective to advance your views, but that doesn’t mean it’s 100% true.
Team Capitalist is more like 80% of Americans if not more. Some of us just want to make it a fair system with strong regulations and safety nets.
Public opinion also does not move inexorably in one direction because that’s where the narrative is being directed. Often aggressive narratives in favor of unpopular ideas actually work against moving public opinion in the direction sought by its proponents.
Climate is the clearest example.
I’m curious what the polling would be in the African-American community for abolishing democracy, property, and whatever other nonsense you’re hyperventilating over.
Maybe, but I highly doubt it. I think you can have nice things in an economic system that takes care of basic needs without going full-socialist.
I mean it’s not like AOC is out there calling for seizing the means. M4A, GND, jobs guarantees and/or expanded UI, $15/hr, etc.
You can have a capitalist system where everyone has their basic needs met and can choose whether to pursue a lot of wealth or not.
The “abolish the police” crowd has got to come up with better answers than “read this 250 page tome”.
People aren’t going to do that. They need easily digestible bullet points.
If you can’t come up with a max 3 sentence answer for “what will stop people from running stop signs and red lights if there are no police?”, you’ve lost the argument for like 99% of the population.
That’s literally what Joe Fucking Biden just gave a speech about, so it’s well within the Overton Window in June 2020.
I spent 45 minutes during lunch and read all the links gregorio posted with an open mind. Half of it was like “we don’t know yet what a world without police looks like, we just know we need them gone” and the other half was some form of community restorative justice.
I don’t want to demean or belittle people that are all aboard on this but I still have many unanswered questions and it left me more confused rather than less confused. It seems to me like an overly rosy, not fully fleshed out idea that has little to no chance of ever working in a real world scenario.
It’s kind of like a swear jar. Every time you do a crime, you have to throw in another quarter.
Obviously I’m trolling. But it’s also not PocketChads’ or any other poster’s job on to do the work of educating the rest of us on their positions. I mean, they can if they want, but if they don’t want to that’s fine too.
Makes sense if you can play elite defense against Trump’s GOP. Reduces variance.
Really? Most likely the police were spread really thin and they called in other agencies to assist . It’s not always the bogey man in the closet.
I guess my point isn’t that we have to pick the farthest left position. My point is that the party should try actually being authentic. We are already losing badly now with this milquetoast strategy of “appealing to moderate voters”, running on electability and trying to nibble at the edges of the problems in society.
Literally everything has gotten worse my whole life and it is accelerating rapidly now. The courts are packed with bad MAGA judges at all levels, the Dems have wielded congress and the presidency at the same time for a grand total of 2 years in the last 26. And virtually nothing progressive has ever been accomplished.
It isn’t working. If our side is doomed to lose and accomplish nothing I would rather do it with our heads up, fighting for what we believe rather than literally caving on everything and moving farther and farther right just for the sake of power.
The system is the problem and it isn’t going to allow itself to be defeated from within by Hillary or Joe Biden even if those people wanted to do it, which they don’t.
They’re realistic socialists.
The important difference is that what DrChesspain suggests is a reality in many countries while your proposal isn’t.
And according to ad for the book, the police itself isn’t a problem, but the way the police are used (i.e. “policing”) that’s the problem.
Also, LOL to anyone who expects to be taken seriously by more than a fringe percentage of the population if the message or slogan is “abolish the police!”
Sure, but if it’s something that I really believe in, I can easily construct a quick argument.
Like when I say that “the electoral college should not exist” to people who haven’t given that idea much thought, I can easily come up with a few bullet point reasons why not in a matter of seconds.
The “Future of Policing” discussion seems worthwhile and probably deserves its own thread. Unless a mod wants to excise posts I can start an OP in a few.
I guess eliminating the police is less of a fantasy that meaningfully reforming it.
okjlaw. gif
If they don’t want to do that then they can’t expect anyone to be convinced by their slogans.
“We can’t abolish the police” sounds exactly the same to me as “All lives matter”. It’s deliberately misinterpreting the point with a bunch of pedantic bullshit.