When South Africa thinks your apartheid has gone too far
Maybe you should convince Hamas to release the hostages and surrender themselves to the IDF. Otherwise, the IDF is simply meeting Hamas on the battlefield they chose. Itâs unfortunate Hamas chose to take down their parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings, and children with them.
75% were civilians. The list was always âpublishedâ. Military service is conscripted, so many people with military rankings are civilians now. Imagine being such a sociopath that you cheer on a massacre of the most extreme right wing in the world because you think it makes you a âleftyâ.
You are the literal definition of a useful idiot.
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There is no doubt Palestinians are oppressed but it is so odd seeing the self-proclaimed most leftist people champion a group like Hamas who make the homophobia, misogyny and racism of trump look like school play.
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Itâs not particularly surprising to me. For a lot of leftists, the biggest evil in the world is the (American) military-industrial complex. They automatically side with anyone who is opposed to the MIC, no matter what that side has done, because of what they consider, by far, the greater evil.
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Tell me you donât care about Palestinians without telling me you donât care about Palestinians
https://twitter.com/AlArabiya_Eng/status/1722495578796437949?t=umsP_Y-1a8nYyHYASOtOoQ&s=19
Yea I wouldnât voluntarily be someone elseâs lap dog occupier either. None of the upside (whatever that is) and all of the downside
I think many would see Hamas as a fairly uninteresting radical group that with extremist proclivities that are a stand in for any radical group that will inevitably pop up under the circumstances that Israel has created in Gaza. They are not Isis or Al qaeda, they have an evolving charter with fundamentalist islamic ideology and no doubt have politics on paper that weâd all disagree with. Theyâve orchestrated both non-violent resistance actions (like in 2018 when Israel massacred protesters) and obviously violence which has impacted civilians. They donât really have many options for fighting back against the apartheid and any group that tries to will inevitably be branded a terrorist organisation, and be subject to the western media apparatus cherrypicking the worst actions and quotes etc.
Boogeymanning Hamas as a distinct evil player to be dealt with in a vacuum is an obvious tactic of Israel apologists, as is focusing on their stance towards gays etc. Itâs also team blue brain rot and very clearly not the point or any kind of driving factor in the conflict for anyone who has been paying attention prior to October 7th. They are also mostly a deliberate creation of Israel.
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If history has taught us anything itâs when non violent actions donât work the next step is murdering and raping young people at a rave
The single most idiotic tendency of the left since 9/11 has been Islamic apologism. All religion is bad but Islam is way down the list. There is no way any thinking leftist can read the Koran, or the life of Muhammad, and come away thinking, âthis is a progressive bookâ.
You strongly disagree with everything they stand for but somehow have decided they are good people because the US opposes them.
It is so odd.
Religion isnât the primary driver behind the conflict or a useful framework for evaluating it. Itâs just a selective red herring used when convenient and totally reductionist. Itâs not even evaluated honestly either since thereâs no logical consistency to how and when liberals use it when defending whatever the dem party line is.
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Religion is precisely how the methods of Oct 8 were born.
What does that even mean
Your characterization isnât accurate obviously, but I think history has shown that desperate people do desperate things
Those pesky crisis actors at it again
Wat
Anyone who believes this oversimplification is either too dim or too intellectually lazy to understand the history of the region.
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How does the âhistory of the regionâ matter here? The circumstances in Gaza are what they are. They are tolerable or they are not. Youâre right, I donât understand the history of the region well enough to know who is responsible for scuttling the two state solutions. I can look intelligent and be like âCamp David Accords! Yitszak Rabin!â but I actually donât know what the fuck I am talking about.
I think leftists understand the pressure of money on a system. Looking at something like the influence of money on politics and being like âby God, what we need is just MORE HONEST PEOPLE in politics who will not succumb to the influence of moneyâ, most leftists understand that this is just a hopeless way of thinking. What has to be changed is the incentives, there is nothing special about the people those incentives are acting upon.
Complaining about the actions of Hamas - which are vile, I agree - just seems to me to be in the same category as this. If we only had BETTER PEOPLE, maybe we could pretend the incentive structure doesnât matter? No. The incentives in Gaza produce people like Hamas. Maybe the actual version of those people we got is more brutal than average, but the fundamental issue is not addressed by harping on moral culpability.
As a leftist I tend to assume that the responsibility for changing the structure of incentives rests with those who have their hands on the levers of power. And maybe this really is impossible in the case of Israel; I donât know. But focusing attention on the immorality of Hamas is just misdirection as far as Iâm concerned; it doesnât address the actual problem.
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Agree with this. However, this is still true:
Hamas may certainly pushing for a permanent state of war now, but they probably wouldnât be under less extreme circumstances in Gaza. Plenty of blame to go aread, but I find it hard to disagree entirely with Watevsâ quoted statement here.
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