World Cup 2022: Congrats to Argentina and the GOAT (WATCH THIS GAME, BEST GAME EVER)

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Yeah seemed like a bad miss by the ref. Pen seemed clear

Thatā€™s standard, though. Refs never really want to give the second unless they have no choice.

This is me too. I think of languages as ā€œEnglish,ā€ and everything else is ā€œnot-Englishā€

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Team of the tournament so far:

Croatian GK
Hakimi - Martinez (hard to pick which Arg CB) - Gvardiol- Davies (I really just canā€™t find a LB I think has been good. Maybe Acuna?)

Modric- Bellingham - Amrabat

Saka Messi Mbappe

Honorable mentions: Giroud, Neymar, Gakpo, Juranovic

I donā€™t watch much club or international soccer but yeah that Saka guy seemed good

If weā€™re including guys eliminated in the quarters, canā€™t really leave off Bruno Fernandes.

Who do you take out in midfield though? I think its harder to leave off Neymar.

I think Livakovic, Modric, Messi, Mbappe are 100% super locks.

Amrabat, Hakimi, an Argentine CB (theyā€™ve all been great!) have to be there.

You can take Jude out I guess for Neymar or Bruno but it seems harsh.

Also, guys like Reus in 2014, Benzema this cycle if they win should get to celebrate as much as the dudes on the end of the bench

He was great today, but I donā€™t remember him doing that great in the prior games. I remember him being kind of bad against the US.

The whole England team was actively not trying vs the USA.

They were playing for a draw and not getting men forward

True, but the performance he had is still the performance he had. If youā€™re making an All Star team, then what he did in that game counts towards the evaluation. Why he played that way is not particularly important. Youā€™re not putting together a team based on potential, youā€™re putting it together based on how they actually played in the tournament in question.

Youā€™re looking at it the wrong way for that game.

That game England was playing for a draw. Their goal was not to concede, give up high quality chances or get countered. So that game Saka was playing more of an auxiliary RB than RW. Youā€™re just trying to tuck in a proper defensive shape, not win the game.

Take Mbappe today. Heā€™s maybe the best player in Europe so you donā€™t mind him not playing any defense. But you also have Giroud, so you now canā€™t press opponents or stop their defensive line from passing the ball amongst themselves.

Then with Mbappe not tracking back, you either leave a hole in that area or have another player move over to cover it but that might create holes elsewhere. France largely have Rabiot fill this, but it either didnā€™t work as Saka found joy, or left Henderson free.

Now, because Mbappe is so good you donā€™t mind this. But, if Argentina win it will likely be because Messi and Di Maria find joy in this space. When they almost won in 2018 that is what happened for ~30 minutes.

So itā€™s important to be aware of the tactics of a team and players. Should we take anything away from Mbappe because he provides no defensive effort? No, itā€™s just the tactical game plan of the team.

The same was true for England not attacking the USA, playing for a draw and knowing that if they kept a compact shape and men behind the ball the USA would struggle to create anything.

Saka had 3 goals and is 21, while providing world class ball progression.

There are like ~10 wingers in world football good at bringing the ball up the pitch and giving decent to world class end product. When you look at a team like Liverpool, they use their full backs to progress the ball so Mane (now Diaz/jota) and Salah can stay higher up the pitch and not use energy on ball progression. Very, very few teams ask their wingers to defend, progress the ball and score. The list of guys good at all 3 is like, 5? This is what made Di Maria so amazing the last decade, he was the best mix of all of this.

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Iā€™m not doubting that Saka can do this, Iā€™m just saying that he didnā€™t in that game. It sounds like we agree that this is what Saka did do

So, my question is could a typical WC RW have done what Saka did about as well as he did it in that game. Iā€™m sure you both know more and watched it more closely, so if you say no, Iā€™ll take your word for it. But if the answer is yes, then it is by definition not a great performance. It was appropriate for the game, of course and there were good reasons for doing it, but that doesnā€™t change the fact that what he did in that game was nothing special.

Iā€™m saying if a coach says ā€œhey, sit back, donā€™t dribble/make risky passes because it risks turnoversā€ you donā€™t say they played a bad game because they followed instructions. Their performance vs England was different than today because that was the game plan, not that they didnā€™t attempt those things because they just didnā€™t feel like it.

For the same way you donā€™t say Mbappe had a bad game because he didnā€™t track back vs Saka and offer defensive protection.

Conceive of not saying

Yeah, I get all of that and I agree with all of that.

Hereā€™s another way to look at it. Imagine Saka had played all 5 games like that because each opponent just happened to require that game plan. If that happened, no one would be thinking he belonged on the team of the tournament.

So if he plays one game like that, then it has to hurt his case a little. Thatā€™s all Iā€™m saying.

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ā€œA la maisonā€ is fine, in fact in 2018 there was a popular song that was called ā€œramenez la coupe Ć  la maisonā€ (bring the cup back home). It had a few lines dedicated to each of the most popular players. (I didnā€™t think it was a particularly good song but Iā€™m no the target audienceā€¦my kids seemed to like it)

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Thanks. I was hoping you would show up. Donā€™t see you around much these days.

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lol England

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