This should probably be it’s own thread but why did the corruption occur? It’s some external force rather than something intrinsic to capitalism? How will warren (or anyone) prevent us getting back to this? The underlying metric of capitalism currently is that Money (or I guess profit) = Value. You want a capitalistisc world where I guess money + social responsibility + environmental concern + … + = Value. To me that seems more far fetched than just ditching the whole thing and starting over.
What exactly is the trail of shit following me?
I have never been to way of bern or whatever on reddit. I am not defending them except for the meme that you posted which is like a 1/10 in terms of problematic online discourse. You and others in this thread absolutely refuse to engage on any issues, you just point to Bernie reddit/Twitter/whatever as if that makes your point. And nobody has actually linked to anything that is problematic, so we can’t even have an actual discussion about whatever it is from those platforms that is so concerning to you. But somehow every discussion here starts with “here’s something candidate x did that I think sucks” and ends with a completely unironic “Bernie bros are rabid animals tho”.
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She did that years before she obtained her political capital from voting for the defense bill. My point was that political capital is not a real thing. Your shit either gets passed or it doesn’t. To whatever extent it DOES exist, it’s not exactly something we should be encouraging our candidates to peddle in.
And everyone has already agreed that there are rabid asshole bernie supporters. Hell I’ll even give you that it’s likely that there are more assholes/1000 bernie supporters than most other candidates.
Corruption is inherent in all systems where people hold power. It’s something you have to hold at bay in any system. It’s usually the single largest problem in socialist countries for instance.
There are rabid asshole supporters of everyone. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more per capita in Bernie’s circle, but I also wouldn’t bet on it. I imagine any online group that trends young and male is likely to trend towards bad stuff, though.
Please, you never offer anything substantial to any discussion pertaining to politics just your dumb one liners. You should just revert to “lolyou” like ikes.
And if you actually had something to say you would man up and realize I did tell you where you’re in denial.
So she was supposed to vote against the defense bill so that her political enemies could claim she was ‘against our veterans’ while passing it easily anyway?
This is the problem with idealists. You guys are willing to eat wildly unnecessary punches for the principle of a thing. That’s simply not how you win a fight, and this is absolutely 100% a fight.
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Yes.
You think she bought herself leniency from the GOP??? Are you fucking serious?
Yeah alienating pro military voters to make a point. That’s how you win elections!
It would be different (and I’m sure her vote would be different) if voting against it was going to make some kind of difference. In real life it wouldn’t, and would in fact be a comically stupid unforced error.
Voting against stuff like this and drawing attention to the state of our military spending is the kind of thing that people like Bernie do. They help shift the overton window and combat the propaganda being spewed by the military industrial complex… but they pay a heavy political price for it.
You say political capital doesn’t exist, but Bernie has never gotten anything he wanted passed ever. (3 bills he sponsored got done, none of which mattered) Clearly you can either do stuff like this or you can get things done, but not both.
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A Giants fan on my Facebook posted an image of their new QB after his preseason debut with text that asked “how would you grade his first game?” Apparently he was pretty good. I didn’t watch. I posted “B-” just to troll. I could have posted a lower grade but that would’ve been dismissed as an obvious troll. “B-” really got under my buddy’s skin. He demanded justification.
The point is don’t dismiss the neolib attack as if it’s not as bad as calling Warren a corporate establishment enemy of the proletariat revolution or something. Those attacks also exist but they’re more obviously extremist views that will be dismissed by most of the population. Whoever created that meme knew exactly what they were doing. It’s divisive and it’s a bad faith attack. As already discussed here letting a budget pass through a Republican Senate to a Republican President without putting your foot down and demanding this is the point where we will demand reductions to the military is broadly acceptable to Democratic voters, not because they’re all neolibs but because the alternative would be a really pointless strategic error. You don’t really want to discuss which candidate is correct on the issues because you keep going back to defending that stupid meme instead of accepting that we’ve already had that discussion and the consensus isn’t as damning of Warren as you would like.
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Yo. It’s not even “rabid asshole bernie supporters”. Josh doesn’t seem like an asshole, but he posted the Jacob Wohl troll that alleged Mayor Pete sexually assaulted someone and had to take it down. To this day you guys are trying to drop hit pieces on other candidates without really scrutinizing them.
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So to be clear in your opinion senators should vote with the majority every time unless they’re the literal deciding vote? If not when is it ok to vote the right way and when do we have to coddle the fascists in charge?
Bernie supporters really are super low information I’ve found. It’s a ton of people who got into politics not very long ago and don’t really like to read. My middle brother transitioned from Bernie Bro to full blown QAnnon Trumper so smoothly it was scary. Granted I started to worry about him and conspiracy theories when he became a 9/11 truther years before that… but the point stands.
There’s a reason why Bernie’s supporters are less well educated and poorer than most of the other Democrats supporters. It’s because both his style and the substance of his ideas appeal very strongly to people without much political knowledge.
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And now we’re back to ad hominems on Bernie supporters some of whom are in Bored’s family, unprompted.
Edited to reflect bored’s response.
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No a personal anecdote from my immediate family and polling data. Poorer less educated left wing voters is where Bernie gets his support from.
To be clear a lot of Bernie’s criticisms of the ‘centrists’ are fair and accurate. I’m not one of these moderate Democrats trying to justify HRC’s loss in 2016 with ‘the Russians stole it’ or ‘Comey fucked us’ or any other singular thing. That whole generation of politicians got us here and they need to go.
Warren is the best candidate in the field, has the least dirt on her hands, and miraculously is also good at getting things done. I can easily understand why someone would support Bernie over HRC in the primary (although not to the point of not voting for her over Trump) in 2016, but I don’t understand left wing people who don’t recognize that Warren is a massively upgraded version of everything good about Bernie with a lot fewer flaws.
He’s not even the second best leftist in the field. That’s Yang hilariously (you guys should love Yang… he’s constantly getting mistreated by the media and growing rapidly anyway). In the moderate lane Pete is probably the best option, but obviously this conversation we’re having now isn’t about the moderate lane.
I think if people like Bob Casey, Tammy Baldwin, Tim Kaine, Sherrod Brown, Debbie Stabenow and Amy Klobuchar lost their senate seats and Biden and Sanders were flipped in polling right now you would see a ton of MSM articles right now about the death of the Clinton/Obama democrats. Instead democrats won the house popular vote by even more than the 2006 midterm wave that was a precursor to Obama and centrists dems successfully defended the most senate seats ever for a party not holding the white house. All done with the highest turnout in a midterm since women got the right to vote.
I’ll turn it around and ask you, after Clinton lost an election where she got more votes,what could have possibly caused you to hold off on pronouncing centrism dead?
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No a personal anecdote from my immediate family and polling data. Poorer less educated left wing voters is where Bernie gets his support from.
Candidate whose lifelong message has been “the system is broken in favor of the elites” has broad support among non-elites, news at 11.
I couldn’t read the last 50 posts. Just couldn’t bring myself to do it. I just kept thinking, “Here we go again… This is how Bernie’s supporters railroad the two or three other progressives’ candidacy’s, followed by the somewhat progressive neolibs, which leaves us with Biden, who loses to Trump.”
I’d rather stick my head in the sand for the time being than watch that argument.
Like if you’re a Bernie supporter who can’t rally behind Warren if she beats him in Iowa and New Hampshire, you’re a buffoon.
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