Candidates running on their resumes: Hillary, Kerry, Gore, McCain, Romney, Dole.
They just don’t excite anyone. Competent and boring is a hard sell for a presidential campaign.
I don’t know why you’re responding to me with that. I wasn’t the one making that argument.
I don’t think Bernie is trying to yell women into submission, but I also don’t think that telling women who feel that way how wrong/absurd their feelings are is a very nice way to respond if one is trying to be a progressive ally.
The correct response is more like, “I’m sorry you feel that way in America in 2019, it’s in many ways a failure of our society to progress more quickly. Why do you feel that way about Bernie, and what do you think he or his supporters could do to change that? I don’t think he’s trying to do that, and I think he’s actually really good on womens issues because of X, Y, Z. Do you support his policies?”
Unfortunately, if you look at a lot of social media discussions about Bernie, you’ll see men shouting down women. I don’t think it represents his movement overall, nor do I think it represents his views or what his presidency would be, but anyone failing to acknowledge that skydiver feels that way for a reason is just missing a lot of what still goes on in America in 2019.
3 Likes
Well, it’s not for me or anyone else to tell you how somebody makes you feel. I believe you. I would just suggest you listen to what he is actually saying. The literal words and who he’s fighting for
I’m also glad you don’t live your life being angry all the time. That would really suck. But there is a time and place to be angry and some things should make us all very angry. Racism, corporate greed, people dying for lack of medical care, spending trillions and countless lives on wars we shouldn’t be fighting. I could go on and on. If Pete’s your guy I have no problem with that. I just ask that you (and everyone) cast your vote based on issues and actual policy agendas, not just who makes you feel calm or who you think you’d most want to invite over for dinner
Cite?
Trump isn’t an outlier. He’s an extreme case who has something in common with Obama, George W. Bush, and Bill Clinton: running against someone who was stressing their experience in government as a selling point and beating them by elucidating a more attractive vision of society.
Dude, read the thread before responding to me. Trump is an outlier in having no governmental experience.
Yeah you’re not going to tar me with a pro-war imperialist brush dude. I’m for cutting the military down to 1% of GDP and focusing most of that on the coast guard and cyber defenses.
You still haven’t given me a single instance where Bernie actually changed his mind about something he had previously championed.
What you’re not getting about me is that I despise the whole concept of ideological purity. There are areas where I’m VERY far left and there are areas where (usually because it’s been tried extensively and failed miserably like price controls and government owned industry) I am not. You’re absolutely right that I wildly disagree with Bernie on quite a few things… And you’re right that I consider belief in those heavily tested failed ideas to be a huge problem.
You wanna be an ideological purist? Fine. That limits your perception of reality in a huge way. Bernie is the same, and that gigantic blind spot where he can’t see stuff that he doesn’t agree with is a massive massive flaw. It’s literally the reason why he’s been so ineffective as a Senator.
There are exactly 3 bills sponsored by Bernie Sanders that became law. Not a single one of them mattered in any macro sense. The guys a career backbench loser whose biggest accomplishment is being the right guy with the right message in 2016 to push the party toward the left.
That’s what a clear eyed analysis of the guy yields. A whole lot of nothing. Even his new ideas are ancient lefty ideas from the 50’s-70’s that he never even questioned that I can tell. I appreciate that he does a good job of staying on message and communicating what he believes in… some of which he’s right about and some of which he’s wrong about… and he has absolutely no idea which is which or why.
‘Even a broken clock is right twice a day’. In Bernie’s case it’s probably a bit more than half of the time (which admittedly is impressive because the average modern politicians number is way lower). His ideological inflexibility is why he’s more of a terrain feature than a player on the board.
Bernie’s loud because he’s a cranky oldster. I don’t think he’s more shouty at women than anyone else.
1 Like
I would argue that a candidate that makes you feel calm in 2019 is not a positive thing. With that said I really don’t believe in telling people how to vote or what factors they should value when they vote, so like if Pete gives you good feels and that’s an important thing for you then he sounds like your guy.
I think it kind of explains some of the problems I have with him, in that he seems to be trying very hard to give vague feel good answers to things that don’t upset anybody. Imo any solutions right now should piss off a lot of people. I guess that’s an uncomfortable position to be in, electorally.
Thank you for being an ally, and for recognizing the toxicity of some of the Bernie supporters in other places on the internet.
1 Like
HRC was probably the most qualified candidate to ever run for office. And you’re right. She was not exciting, but ask yourself why? I say it was because she’s an establishment wonk. No one seems able to read the tea leaves and least of all the establishment Dems. People are fed up with the status quo! It’s how Trump backed into the presidency
Yeah this is actually a really good take and totally true. The experience argument is such hot garbage. Especially in the 2019 context.
Not going to waste time looking for it. Next time I see it I’ll try to remember to post it. But I don’t really want to drag Bernie through the mud for it, because I don’t think it’s really his fault (although he could probably do more to prevent it) and I don’t think he’s even likely that aware of it. So I haven’t been pointing it out much or compiling a list.
I think there’s something to be said for the fact that there are more idealogues supporting him because he’s the farthest left and they tend to be more absolutist and thus more abrasive toward others and due to societal failures that manifests itself worse when arguing with women.
1 Like
Oh, Bernie is aware of it. He’s already addressed it.
Why don’t you start listing a few of the things he’s wrong about and let’s compare them to what other candidates are wrong about. The last thing I want to do is support the wrong candidate
I mostly agree with this, but it’s beyond reasonable to think that women who have dealt with being shouted over throughout their lives by overly aggressive - if not overtly sexist - men, may be likely to interpret that differently than a man.
In that scenario you can say that’s not Bernie’s fault, but it’s not theirs either… So then the question is whether or not this is a widespread feeling, and if it is (likely imo), then we should ask who has the responsibility to try to address it… And it’s clearly not mostly on the women who feel that way.
So if Bernie wants to appeal more to them, then it’s on him to do so.
1 Like
It’s about a skill stack and how that skill stack matches the job of president. There is no equivalent job experience. The job of being a Senator for instance has almost nothing in common with being POTUS. That doesn’t mean Senators can’t be good presidents, but it does mean that it’s main positive trait is that it lets us see whether the candidate is good at getting things done. Warren got the CFPB off the ground and hasn’t been in politics all that long. Sanders has been in politics longer than some of the people in this thread have been alive and hasn’t accomplished a single thing of any note. He couldn’t even beat HRC in a left leaning primary lol. You Bernie people can pretend like the DNC rigged it for HRC all you want, but the truth is he had a shot and he blew it. The DNC in 2016 and probably the present lack the basic ability to rig anything. They’re a rolling trash fire and have been for a very long time.
1 Like
eh, it’s easy to find.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/
https://www.reddit.com/r/WayOfTheBern/
or just look for rose emojis on twitter. You shouldn’t have to dive too deep to find lovely things.
Where are you guys even getting the idea that Bernie is loud or louder than other politicians? Can you link to some specific incident? Was it during the debate?