The trillion dollars a year in savings comes from the elimination of the private health insurance industry.
2 Likes
Hillary was literally a Goldwater Girl. In her youth she wanted to nuke Vietnam.
1 Like
How does M4AWWI work for private insurance companies? They have to provide coverage that is just as good as M4A at the same costs, right? The plan is to do this thru being more efficient? I understand the concerns about a difficult transition. M4A has a transition too.
Basically. Itās to make them compete or die. Plus, even private premiums will be capped, at least in Peteās plan.
The other thing that the other plans donāt talk about is costs on the part of providers. Limiting hospital costs would do go hand in hand with capping premiums, providing a public option, and subsidizing that option for low and mid income people.
I admit I am not an expert in the nuts and bolts of the health care behemoth. Everyone talks about evil insurance companies, but no one talks about some of the down and dirty logistical things that have to happen in order to dismantle what we have. Thatās why I think 4 years is a ridiculous time frame for transition. 10 years might be doable. But until then, can we work on getting everyone covered first and foremost?
2 Likes
The fuck Arkansas and Vermont? Kansas makes some sense but the other 2? 
PA has a lot more black people than WI.
edit after actually looking it upāoh itās only 5% more wrt the state but enough where if they turnout like 2012 PA is red.
Peteās plan does nothing to address this issue. So whose plan are you referencing that gets everyone covered?
For them to compete, you have to believe that the government bureaucracy will mess things up and be significantly more inefficient than private industry. I will optimistically believe that we can take on a difficult challenge.
Iām no wonk either, and Iām not sure i understand your point about costs on the part of providers. The incentive to lower hospital costs under M4A are that it will cost taxpayers less.
I donāt know how much things have changed in between the last two debates, but apparently Castroās plan is very similar to Peteās. In Castroās you have to opt out, in Peteās you have to opt in. Thatās probably the idea of plan that covers everyone (you have to opt out vs. opting in).
So we need to get into this a bit on why I hate the public option plans.
-
Iāve discussed this already but a plan requiring opt in/buy in does nothing to provide coverage to people who arenāt currently covered
-
A public option by not being the sole provider will experience some savings over for profit healthcare by eliminating the profit motive but it wonāt experience the additional savings that come from the ability to exert price control when youāre the sole buyer in the market and providers have to accept your coverage or go out of business.
-
This is where we get into the weeds. How is the public option plan going to be paid for? In this case this is actually a super important question as youāll see in the next point.
-
The public option can be simultaneously drastically cheaper than for profit health coverage and more expensive to the majority of individuals. Weāve used a rough estimate of 25% cost savings of single payer healthcare vs for profit healthcare. If the monthly premiums for coverage right now are 1K, in an employer sponsored plan the employer normally pays over half the cost of the premium while the employee only sees a smaller portion, say $400 coming out of their paycheck. If the public option requires the individual to pay the full premium, it could be 25% cheaper cost but still twice as expensive to the individual. Without a function to force cost sharing from the employer and/or higher taxation on the wealthy as would happen with single payer healthcare, the public option can easily be setup to fail vs more expensive for profit healthcare.
1 Like
Hmm, from Peteās plan:
"First, individuals with lower incomes in states that have refused to expand Medicaid will be automatically enrolled in the public option. Pete will also end Medicaid work requirements that take health care away from people. " (from page 3 of the white paper)
āAutomatically enroll individuals in affordable coverage if they are eligible for it. Over half of people with no insurance are eligible for either free insurance or an affordable insurance option. Anyone eligible for free coverage in Medicaid or the public option will be automatically enrolled, and those eligible for subsidized coverage will have a simple enrollment option. Individuals could opt out of public coverage if they choose to enroll in another insurance planā
(page 4 of the white paper)
https://storage.googleapis.com/pfa-webapp/documents/Medicare_for_All_Who_Want_It_WP.pdf
Opt out vs Opt in is a massive difference and I havenāt heard Pete ever push for an opt out program. Castroās plan is essentially single payer with the option for stupid people to opt out. Itās inferior to single payer because I think we should protect people from themselves who might fall for propaganda against gubmint healthcare and opt out, but itās still far superior to opt in plans.
1 Like
How will they know if someone is eligible?
Seriously that plan is a political ruse and is still an opt in plan. Everyone means everyone.
1 Like
Iām open to the idea of just straight-up nationalizing health insurance companies and having the government take them over. I know someone advocating that would probably not get elected, but maybe it would be good to have someone on the primary fringe suggesting that to move the Overton window leftward.
1 Like
This is basically M4A
She was a goldwater girl in like HS and was anti-Vietnam either when she entered or not far into college.
Itās not just the profit margins. A ton of money is spent pushing paperwork side to side mostly in an effort to not pay for stuff. This means the things paid for are at inflated prices due to having to cover the stuff not paid for and is a totally unneeded cost in a M4A system. There are also a lot of expenses related to healthcare of salary and commissions that are not related to profits. There is a reason the pill companies hire hot blondes to go talk to doctors about which pill to prescribe.
The whole system is a disaster. We could literally just copy a neighboring countryās system (cough canada cough) learn as we go and be better off. All of this talking about people losing their health insurance is hilariously sad and framed inside of a debates constructed in PR thinktanks. Iāve literally had health insurance through my job before and not be able to afford to go to the doctor. And no Iām not talking like cancer treatment, Iām talking like deductible and copay. Maybe you havenāt experienced this kind of thing the current system is straight up despicable.
When you really get down to the core of the āhow are you going to pay for itā what people are saying is that they donāt want to pay for poors healthcare if it will decrease their overall quality of care by even 5%. Just admit it. The middle class is ok with poors dying to easily treatable conditions as long they feel like they have a good vision plan.
2 Likes
I mean, instead of starting up a new government bureaucracy from scratch, take over the insurance companies Use eminent domain or whatever.
Sure, that may be straight-up socialism. I donāt care about labels if it turns out to be a pragmatic way of accomplishing things. I donāt know how efficient that method would be, but I would like to see someone explore it.