The objective of GTO is to be unexploitable. I’m pretty sure NBZ’s goal is to make money. I find it pretty hard to believe that GTO is optimal for making money in the games that NBZ plays.
A true GTO solution would account for game type.
I don’t believe GTO solutions adapt to game type. The entire point is to remain unexploitable regardless of opponent. Adapting to game type means to deviate from GTO because you believe that playing exploitable poker is +EV based on opponents.
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I won’t pretend to be an expert of GTO but my understanding is a GTO solution would adapt to player ranges. Current GTO modelling doesn’t do this but eventually it would.
True GTO play is opponent agnostic. Once you start adjusting for opponent ranges you are playing a mixed game between GTO and exploitive, which also opens you up to being exploited.
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No poker talk in OOT imo. More threesomes. Sadly despite bi femme wife never made it happen but only been married 10 years, need 5 more apparently.
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This is getting pretty meta now but isn’t that simply because of the current limitations of GTO strategy?
The exploitative play is filling in the theoretical and mathematical gaps that currently exist in GTO. If we were able to calculated a true and final GTO strategy it would encompass all the exploitative “deviations”. No?
No, I do not believe so. The stated objective is to remain unexploitable. Being completely unexploitable will almost never (perhaps 100 percent never) converge with optimal play for maximum profit. Especially at lower stakes where people call too much, as one example. It would be suicide to continue bluffing with unexploitable ranges. Once you start adjusting to ranges you are playing a mixed strategy.
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I (and @Aofrantic, I believe) don’t think NBZ’s plo strategy is profitable in a normal game. Some of the HHs he posts are baffling.
Like, this is the early 2000s level of poker being played at the PLO games in Texas.
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Yeah I get that and I’m not arguing that he is playing optimally or even profitably. (I don’t even play anymore.) I’m just arguing that Clovis is wrong about GTO being optimal.
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Perhaps I am conflating the term GTO with what I am thinking of optimal.
Do we agree, that in any game there will be a mathematically optimal VPIP, raise, bluff, 3 bet ect frequency? And those optimal frequencies will change based on real time changes in your opponents play?
That is what I’m calling optimal. I recognize nobody plays anywhere close to this, of course.
There can’t be mathematically optimal ways to play exploitative poker because we never have enough information about our opponents’ inner thoughts, feelings, motives, etc. to make “optimal decisions.”
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Sir have you been to the internet
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We are offering suggestions to improve his game and win rate. That is not criticizing imo. I only criticized when he claimed his style is somehow inherent and can’t be modified.
A strategy is optimal in a game theoretic sense when it can’t be exploited. This causes confusion for laymen who think optimal means the strategy that makes the most money. I believe Chen and Ankenman, the authors of The Mathematics of Poker, were responsible for introducing this terminology and regret it.
My personal style is neither GTO nor maximally exploitative. However, it is a strategy that I can play comfortably. I have elements of GTO play because I naturally default to mixed strategies. My style tends to be confusing and frustrating for opponents who fancy themselves to be smart LAGs. Some of their favorite plays don’t work if I put them in what I think of as “multiplayer jail” and prevent them from being able to isolate and get it heads-up.
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If you would have just posted this earlier I would have stayed out of it!
I enjoy talking about poker, although I suppose we are mucking up the Vegas thread with strategy talk. No think that talking about poker with intelligent people can only improve me. My biggest leak in poker is really not developing a crew to discuss poker with at a high level.
I made the bad read of assuming everyone knew that stuff.
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Anyways, my hope is to be Las Vegas on October 10 for WSOP event #21.
Can we all agree that going to Vegas and not having a threesome is a fail?
(I am 0/1).