Sounds like they’re doing Rudy next (and it’s coming out late this week). Decent movie I guess, nothing more really.
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Welp, this is a Kyle Brandt episode. The broiest bro who ever broed. I’m listening anyway.
Brandt goes right in with “you either love this movie or hate it,” which is a framework I detest since it’s almost never true. When it comes to basically anything: the loud people either love it or hate it. Then there’s a bunch of people who shrug and say “meh” and they’re not going to tend to make their voice heard because why would they?
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Yeah Rudy is one of the most meh movies of all time. Ive heard people say they love it, but never run into a hater. At worst its “yeah, that movie was fine.”
The episode goes into it at length, but the hate seems to stem from just how much bullshit the supposed true story was and what a shitty and unlikable dude the real Rudy seems to be. These guys like the movie in spite of it all, but they don’t spare the subject. I figured it might be a good episode just because there’s plenty of shit to talk about the off-screen stuff.
I saw a bunch of discussion about it when the topic of this episode dropped (but before the ep itself did), including a story about the real Rudy getting brought up on SEC charges for some shady financial dealings, and Sean Astin as Rudy was in the thumbnail for the story. Someone said, “poor Sean Astin getting his picture attached to that.” Then within a day Sean Astin showed up at the DNC to specifically brag about being Rudy.
I’m gonna post a Fight Club entry in a few days.
(Risky, not trying to jack your thread, happy to follow your lead if you post one of these.)
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By all means!!
My reaction as I have started rewatching is that this might be my personal most quoted movie ever? That’s a crowded competition, but this is in the running. “Best quote” will be a damn novel.
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This is your life and it’s ending one quote at a time.
Yeah that was the first one I wrote down. But far from the last.
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Also Rewatchables this week is apparently Purple Rain. Haven’t seen it, not on streaming, guess this is a week off. Do me a favor and burn off another Kyle Brandt week since I’m not listening. (Probably not; I’m not under the impression that it’s a bro movie.)
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I’ve never seen PR either. I hear it’s a good classic. One of my friends said she would leave it on the whole weekend sometimes.
It’s a good movie
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Fight Club
This is one of the movies where I recognize a moviegoer’s right to be sensitive about spoilers, so if you somehow haven’t gotten around to this one yet, I recommend not reading any of my post. And I more strongly recommend watching it.
CATEGORIES
• Most Rewatchable Scene
Honestly? There’s not a huge standout here. I guess I’d go with the whole first bar sequence with Brad Pitt and Edward Norton that gets capped off by their first “fight” (sort of). Otherwise, it’s a lot of great scenes, but I just struggle to set them too far apart from each other.
• The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie
I think that it probably does have to come back to “this is your life and it’s ending one minute at a time.” Which I do love. But my personal favorite probably comes from a large selection scattered throughout the rest of the movie. Let me begin my tome on that point now.
*I don’t know why I’m so tickled by this, I guess just because Pitt’s end goal in the brief exchange feels so random to me, but: Pitt: “Promise you won’t tell her about me.” Norton: “Okay.” Pitt: “You promise?” Norton: “I promise.” Pitt: “You promise?” Norton: “I JUST SAID I PROMISE!” Pitt: “That’s three times you promised.” I laugh just typing that out. WTF was the significance of gaining three promises? I guess he’s just fucking with him for the fun of it.
*Kind of related in terms of their dynamic, but the part where they’ve hung out at the bar for so long and then Norton says he’s gotta get a hotel. Pitt: “Oh, God. Three pitchers of beer and you still can’t ask.” Norton: “What?” Pitt: “You called me because you needed a place to stay.” Norton: “No no no…” Pitt: “Yes you did. So cut the foreplay and just ask.” Norton: “Would that be a problem?” Pitt: “Is it a problem for you to ask?” Just stringing him along and demanding that he stretch his comfort zone just a little by directly asking the question, it’s quite entertaining to me. Basically calling him a pussy for still not being able to have a direct exchange even after three pitchers of beer tickles me too.
*Pitt: “No, I get it. It’s very clever.” Norton: “Thank you.” Pitt: “How’s that working out for you?” Norton: “What?” Pitt: “Being clever.” Norton: “Oh. Uhh, good.” Pitt: “Ah. Keep it up then.” Fucking scathing. I would feel like someone reached into me and ripped my skeleton out of my flesh if they sarcastically dressed down my attempt at cleverness that way.
*Pitt taking a beating from Lou of Lou’s Tavern and repeatedly responding to “you got it?” in the negative before finally going, “Okay, okay, I got it! … Ah shit, I lost it,” followed by another brutal punch to the face. The “ah shit, I lost it” as a continued taunt is great.
*Norton talking to airport security. “My suitcase was vibrating?” TSA: “Nine times out of ten it’s an electric razor, but every once in a while…it’s a dildo. Of course, it’s company policy never to imply ownership in the event of a dildo…always use the indefinite article A dildo, never YOUR dildo.” Norton: “But I don’t own—” The way the officer throws up a hand to flatly cut off the attempted denial, the whole execution here, kills me every time.
*Pitt referring to the ridiculously straight faces everyone in the graphics is keeping in the airplane safety pamphlets and saying, “Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows.” I’ve used “calm as Hindu cows” before. And then I always panic and go, “Wait, is that offensive?” And then I walk myself through what the phrase even means and then assure myself that no, it is not offensive.
*One time, circa 2010, I wrecked my car and the driver’s side was left very ugly until I got it fixed. In this state, it was parked in my apartment’s parking garage. Someone who I knew in the building and was Facebook friends with posted on my wall during the next day or two, “Dude, what happened to your car???” The only response I gave in a comment underneath was, “‘I felt like destroying something beautiful.’ -Edward Norton, Fight Club.”
*Pitt: “What’d you major in?” Raymond: “S-s-s-stuff…” Pitt: “Stuff? Were the midterms hard?”
*Finally, I love the way Norton has himself boxed in and can’t order his way out of likely getting castrated in the police interrogation room because his own army is going to do it to him. Everything is “you said you’d say that,” culminating in…Norton: “Listen to me: I’m giving you a direct order. We are aborting this mission right now.” Officer: “You said you’d definitely say that.” Alright, moving on from quotes. But I think this is an insanely quotable movie.
• What’s Aged the Best?
I mean clearly the answer here is Brad Pitt’s turn from pretty boy into…whatever this is. Obviously he doesn’t sacrifice attractiveness to take on this role, but it’s an entirely different type than he had showcased so far. While I’ve said before that I absolutely the likes of Meet Joe Black and Legends of the Fall, the pretty rendition of Brad Pitt also put out some VERY boring movies (Seven Years in Tibet; A River Runs Through It). This created a clear long-term pivot that just made him a more interesting performer in general. A person can draw a direct line back to Fight Club when talking about just how successful and lasting his career turned out to be. When Blank Check covered Meet Joe Black recently, they actually spoke to the fact that this movie was Pitt’s direct reaction to the commercial failure of Meet Joe Black. If true, I’m quite thankful to get that two-movie progression since I’m one of the ones who loves both of them.
Other things that aged well:
*Unlike movies where the big twist is a cheap trick that worsens the movie, the twist is one of the things that makes this movie especially rewatchable. You watch it back and you see that they breadcrumb the ever-living shit out of the twist throughout the movie, so it’s pretty much the opposite of the cheap trick that this sort of twist could potentially be. It’s well-earned. They keep Pitt and Marla - purportedly fucking like rabbits for a long stretch - apart on-screen the whole time in a way that the audience never questions. Having one of the first lines of the movie be “I know this because Tyler knows this” is just straight-up showing off and taunting the audience.
• What’s Aged the Worst?
I really don’t even hold this against the movie, but the fact that a whole generation of young men viewed this as aspirational isn’t great.
I tend to just think that from the point we get into Project Mayhem and Norton/Pitt start building up an army in their home, the movie hits a lull and the greatness becomes a lot more spotty. And it hasn’t really improved with time the way that some movie’s slow spots age well and cause you to gain appreciation for them with time. In my most recent rewatch, I had an experience that I feel like I’ve had previously: during the first half of the movie, I start going, “is this a five-star movie?” and then that part kicks in and I shrug and go “yeah, probably not.” I do think it’s a 4.5-star movie though.
That “this - - is what is known as a cigarette burn” played so much cooler on the screen in the theater than it does digitally. Those little black dots really would show up, and one showed up naturally at that moment. Ever since it first hit DVD, that spot has been animated and showed up with a beeping sound, and it’s always seemed so much dumber than the initial theater experience of it. Probably unavoidable, but whatever.
It feels kinda weird that they give us multiple moments peering in on an arson investigation without ever giving us anything remotely resembling a payoff. I think it’s quite clear that the movie is implying that Ed Norton torched his own apartment and collected insurance money and thereby certainly committed crimes before the whole fight club part ever started, but it feels like something had to have been left on the cutting-room floor. Though I suppose he also confessed to masterminding the building demolitions that are happening at the end, so a little bit of arson is probably going to be a minor part of his rap sheet.
If they were hoping for Ed Norton’s threat to give the first one to move “…a LEAD SALAD” to become slang for shooting someone, I’m pretty sure it failed. Never heard that again in any context.
• The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance
Meat Loaf? I think it’s probably Meat Loaf. His name was Robert Paulson.
• The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award
Has to be Zach Grenier, whose name I had to look up even though I’ve seen him a bunch. He does leave his mark in this movie as Norton’s boss at work. Finding his name made me panic slightly, because it was going to make me question the nature of existence if I found out he was related to the charmless and talentless Adrian Grenier. Happily, he is not.
Obviously should shout out Holt McCallany as well here, who really only ceased to be a “that guy” recently.
• Casting What Ifs
Apparently Russell Crowe was up for the role they gave Brad Pitt? I feel like they went the right way, and I’m especially glad they went Pitt because of the great impact it had on his career, but at the same time: Crowe and Norton teaming up in this era is incredible to consider. These two were in the midst of two of the great hot streaks of the entire era, so having them cross paths during would have been something to behold.
Matt Damon and Sean Penn were up for the Norton role. It’s pointless for me to ponder these things because I’m always going to side with “give the role to Norton.”
The Marla Singer role, played by Helena Bonham-Carter, has a number of people who also read for it: Janeane Garofalo, Courtney Love, Winona Ryder, and…Reese Witherspoon? I can’t fathom that last option. Courtney Love and Ed Norton were actually an item for a minute. She might have been an interesting choice. Ditto for Ryder. Again I think they nailed the casting.
• Half-Assed Internet Research
So this probably goes here as well as anywhere: at least in this era, Ed Norton had a thing against smoking where he refused to have his characters smoke. He hated smoking and he hated that movies glorified it so much. And in fact, as a result, you would tend to see his character actively oppose smoking in all of these movies. Remember in Rounders, “If you’re so determined to die of cancer, you should learn how to play cards”? Pretty sure that was purely worked in as a Norton touch. And even in this movie, early on, in the bar when Pitt and Norton are talking, Pitt offers him a smoke and Norton says “no I don’t smoke.” But later in the movie, as Norton continues to spiral, they have the scene in the officer where he’s just casually sitting at his desk with a lit cigarette hanging out of his mouth. It seems like that was the one moment where you would catch Norton smoking on camera in this era. Makes sense that he would make an exception here, where he probably felt that he was safely not participating in the glorification of it since it was being used as a prop to signify him hitting bottom in his personal life.
This isn’t really half-assed because I remember it from the commentary track on the DVD way back when, but: when Helena Bonham Carter says, “My God, I haven’t been fucked like that since grade school,” as a Brit that joke didn’t carry the American meaning and didn’t read to her as the edgelord shit that it was and was clearly meant to be in context (given the intro line of “the shit that comes out of this woman’s mouth” and then Pitt’s funny revolted reaction after the line). She only got up to speed on why it was getting such a reaction on set once she asked someone. Apparently the alternate line here was for her to say, “Fuck me, I want to have your abortion.” I think they went with the funnier line.
(Okay, I guess they didn’t fully keep them apart on-camera, but this isn’t a continuity problem with the twist.)
The Blank Check guys mentioned that Fincher loved using Norton specifically because he found something very amusing about Norton’s face, and specifically likened him to a modern-day Buster Keaton where it was simply funny to watch him do things that wouldn’t be funny if it was someone else. Honestly? I can see it. Despite being a relatively good-looking guy, there is also an inherent goofiness to that mug. You especially see it with a couple of his facial reactions during the movie: 1. When he’s finding out the twist, and Pitt tells him, “uhh, technically YOU’RE fucking Marla. But it’s all the same to her,” and then they create a fantasy reenactment where he’s in the middle of doing that and it just scans up to him very confused by the act he’s suddenly in the middle of; and 2. Marla telling him in the restaurant toward the end, “There’s things I like about you: you’re smart, you’re funny, you’re spectacular in bed,” and during the last part Norton gives a subtle but comical look to the side to acknowledge that compliment. He does have a versatile face.
• Probably Unanswerable Questions
I always wonder: was Fight Club inspired by Dostoevsky? When I read Notes from Underground, I had a full-on LeoPointing.jpg moment when the first-person narrator describes walking down the street and seeing a barroom brawl that culminates in one of the men being thrown out the bar window, then saying something like, “As I watched this, I couldn’t help but feel…envy.” It just felt like it was treading over a lot of the same themes that Fight Club went right in on. Of course, this was a book, so the answer to this would lie with Chuck Pahlaniuk. I just ran a quick Google about this, and there’s no shortage of hits of people exploring this exact question, so it isn’t just me who wondered.
I suppose it connects with the topic I already mentioned, but: does he ever get charged for the arson? There’s probably no way to get around the other criminal charges coming his way since it seems like he confessed to a cop who wasn’t enlisted in Project Mayhem like his various colleagues were.
• Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All Black Remake
None of this. I mean, in theory a prequel that was largely the story of an office drone sinking further into what he was at the start of this movie could be a little interesting, but Norton can’t play the prequel to Norton of 25 years ago and you cannot simply throw another person in as younger Edward Norton.
• Apex Mountain
I think this might be it for Norton? I’m so very sad that this hot streak flamed out. This kind of plays to me like it was the culmination of the great work he was doing at the end of the 90s. This isn’t peak Norton performance, but it does kind of feel like the peak of his powers, credibly being the lead of a movie somewhat above Brad Pitt in the credits.
No for Pitt, no for Fincher. Maybe yes for Bonham-Carter? She’s had a really good career, but this feels like maybe her biggest role, as she breaks out of her self-imposed Tim Burton jail to play in a wider movie. No for The Pixies. Yes for Meat Loaf, no for Meat Loaf in general (that would be his Celebrity Apprentice run of course).
• Who Won the Movie?
Pitt. A billion times Pitt. Next.
• Picking Nits
So…and this is kinda weird, because it’s like they self-nitpick, but: in the fight at the end, Pitt is dragging Norton around by the hair, and then on the surveillance camera it plainly shows that he’s being dragged by nobody at all. You can explain away a lot of Norton and Pitt being one and the same, but how the hell is he simply being dragged like that without an actual physical being doing it? It doesn’t look like he could just pull that off as a solo act doing it to himself.
“I need this.” “Candy-stripe a cancer ward. It’s not my problem.” Why would Marla back down and agree to split the classes like Norton was demanding? They weren’t…involved yet. I guess this is sort of patched up by the fact that she simply starts showing back up at some point for the ones she agreed to skip, but yeah.
Norton refers matter-of-factly to a member of the fight club as “the maître d’ of a local food court,” which…what? Do I not know the meaning of maître d’? Or does “food court” maybe mean something fancier somewhere else? I think “food court” and I’m just looking around at a Sbarro and an Orange Julius and a Cinnabon.
• The “Great Shot Gordo” Award for Most Cinematic Shot
Gotta be the last one.
• The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?
I’m…not sure anyone gets portrayed as good at their job. Although I guess a seemingly pacifist priest does get baited into punching a guy.
• The “Big Kahuna Burger” Award for Best Use of Food and Drink
I mean I think I have to default back to the “three pitchers of beer” bit, considering that every time food comes into play it’s tainted. The tainted food throughline is unfunny.
• The “Butch’s Girlfriend” Award for the Weakest Link in the Film
Look: I’m just never really happy to see Jared Leto.
• The “Ron Burgundy Flute” Award for the Best Time for a Pee Break
You get more than two minutes to kind of just bypass some of the Project Mayhem stuff that bridges the early movie to the endgame. I don’t mean to overstate the badness of that part, it’s not bad, but I really don’t think some of it is essential.
• Is There a Better Title for this Movie?
Not only no, but: this is an elite movie title.
• The Steven A. Smith Hottest Take Award
Cornflower blue ties are a good thing to wear to work if there’s a need to throw on a tie. And acknowledgment of various color shades is good in general in life. I don’t know; I have a friend who has always picked on me for how specific I’ll get when describing a color, and I’m firmly in the noragrets.jpg camp about the whole thing. All of this is to say that the movie pretending those are exceedingly lame qualities of the boss are probably his most endearing traits.
• The Teddy KGB Award for the Actor in a Completely Different Movie
I’ve got nothing. This movie, which absolutely does not feel small, has a very small cast. There are three main characters (Norton, Pitt, Bonham-Carter), then three noticeable supporting characters (Meat Loaf, Leto, Grenier), and then I guess Holt McCallany gets a couple of speaking lines. I don’t think any of the above qualify.
• Just One Oscar
Norton. As a makeup for not giving him the trophy for Primal Fear or American History X.
Okay, I don’t truly believe in makeup Oscars, so let’s look at this a little closer. Best Actor was won by Kevin Spacey for American Beauty. I’d give it to Pitt or Norton over him (even just from a performance standpoint). However, I would ultimately give it to Crowe in The Insider over both of them. So I look at Supporting Actress, and Angelina Jolie shipped it for Girl, Interrupted. Haven’t seen it. But Toni Collette from The Sixth Sense would definitely beat this Bonham-Carter performance even if Jolie doesn’t win.
I don’t know…I can’t find a place where I think this movie absolutely should have won one of the big awards, so I’ll go back to my original Norton answer. If they were going to get it wrong, they could have gotten it less wrong at least.
• Best Double Feature
Honestly? Make it the second half of a double feature after Meet Joe Black. The jarring difference from one Pitt performance to the next would be an experience.
• What Piece of Memorabilia Would You Want From This Movie?
I’ll take a bar of soap that showed up in one of the scenes.
• The “Andy and Red – Zihuatanejo” Award for What Happens the Next Day?
Okay this is actually kind of an interesting one. He had turned himself in, so I’m guessing he’ll just surrender himself again? He got away to try to prevent what then just happened, so I don’t think he’s going to do anything crazy to try to get away with it. But that means he’s just going away for a long damn time, so I guess the aftermath may ultimately not be THAT interesting.
• The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson
“The things you own end up owning you.”
• The “Slow Ride” / “Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness” Award for Best Needle Drop
That Pixies drop at the end is clearly it. That’s a nice little flourish.
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Sounds like next Rewatchables is Night Shift (1982). Another miss for me since I haven’t seen it and it’s not on streaming (unless the latter part changes when the month turns over later in the weekend). Guessing they picked this one because it will be Michael Keaton week with the Beetlejuice sequel coming out.
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I got an autographed 1st edition of the Fight Club novel.
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Any message attached or just a signature?
Some imaginary friends never go away . . .
Ten years after starting Project Mayhem, he lives a mundane life. A kid, a wife. Pills to keep his destiny at bay. But it won’t last long, the wife has seen to that. He’s back where he started, but this go-round he’s got more at stake than his own life.The time has arrived . . .Rize or Die.
New York Tomes bestselling novelist Chuck Palahniuk and acclaimed artist Cameron Stewart have collaborated for one of the most highly anticipated comic book and literary events of 2015–the return of Tyler Durden. The first rule of Fight Club 2 might be not to talk about it, but Fight Club 2 is generating international headlines and will introduce a new generation of readers to Project Mayhem.
Boy. Hardest of passes.
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Wait, thats real?
Sounds awful
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It appears to be real. I couldn’t conceive of such a bad idea even as a troll.
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