Yeah I don’t know, Krumholtz says that De Niro and Pacino have no chemistry. I just didn’t see it that way. But I do appreciate a pretty successful actor being as unfiltered as he was.
1 Like
Maybe it’s just me, but I also don’t have a problem with Pacino going HAM, eg “she got a big ass!” He won me over with the exaggerated performance in The Devil’s Advocate.
My favorite part of that is that the scripted line is clearly “big ass,” and he even forms his lips to start saying it, then suddenly audibles at the last split-second to “great ass.”
Like he’s just calculating in real time and going, “WTF, she doesn’t have a big ass.”
I’m not a big fan of yelling Pacino, but I do enjoy him in Heat.
1 Like
Wait is Meet Joe Black a bad movie? I’ve seen it twice and really enjoyed it. Of course late 90s Brad Pitt and Anthony Hopkins is just fire
1 Like
Makes me think Legends of the Fall and Meet Joe Black would make a nice pairing
1 Like
It’s a great movie, there’s just a meme around it because a bunch of nerds never gave it a shot. They bought a ticket, watched the trailer for Phantom Menace, and left.
Like it actually doesn’t get rated terribly; it has a 7.1/10 average on IMDb and a 3.4/5 average on Letterboxd. But anytime I hear anyone with a platform refer to it, it’s all negative. Consensus of “this movie is way too long for no reason.” Like, it has plot holes you could drive an 18-wheeler through, it’s not technically perfect, but it hits the emotional spot for me really well. I think this scene is the best thing in the movie:
I love Legends of the Fall too, though unlike in Meet Joe Black, I spend most of the movie being furious with the characters of Hopkins and Pitt.
2 Likes
That is a great scene.
Idk I think MJB is a great prototype for anyone who loved Succession.
Eff it putting the GOAT on right now thanks to Tubi.
1 Like
It’s crazy that the movie came out in 1998 with the premise that Anthony Hopkins was about to die from old age, and yet he kept making movies for by now close to another thirty years.
1 Like
Fuck it; let’s do it.
• Most Rewatchable Scene
While I do call the above-linked hospital scene the best in the movie, the most rewatchable almost certainly has to be the coffee shop meeting between Brad Pitt and Claire Forlani.
I don’t know how a person could watch that scene and be uncharmed. If the absurd tonal shift to Brad Pitt’s violent death counts as part of that scene - and I’d say it does - there’s really no contest here.
• The Neil McCauley “A Book about Metals” Award for Best Line from the Movie
Back to giving love to the hospital scene.
“It nice it happened to you. Like you went to the island and had a holiday. Sun didn’t burn you red-red, just brown. You sleep, and no mosquito eat you. But the truth is, it bound to happen if you stay too long. So take that nice picture you got in your head home with you, but don’t be fooled. We lonely here mostly too. If we lucky, maybe, we got some nice pictures to take with us.”
Tremendous.
• What’s Aged the Best?
The billionaire who decides to take a hard-line stance against a major corporation who he says is “all profit” and refuses to let his major media company be compromised in that way does not exactly feel realistic, but damn did we need some real life Bill Parrishes making these decisions at the top of major media companies a long time ago.
The score to this movie is fantastic, one of the best of that period.
• What’s Aged the Worst?
This family is all just going around casually kissing each other on the lips? Like, Quince is just planting one on his sister-in-law? Call me old-fashioned, but it struck me as weird.
Claire Forlani’s career aged badly. She probably saw this as her big chance to break out after having recently played a smaller part as Sean Connery’s daughter in The Rock, and…nope. This movie flopped, then she’s in Mystery Men and that doesn’t help her. Then she’s doing stuff like Boys and Girls and Antitrust, and she’s basically off into the ditch after that point.
Hopkins’s other daughter basically says, “I know I’m not your favorite. It’s cool,” and Hopkins makes no token attempt to argue. Just says “oh Allison” and hugs her. Man, I don’t question that he loved both of his daughters, but that’s a little cold.
• The Dion Waiters Award for Best Heat Check Performance
It’s Lois Kelly Miller for her scenes in the hospital. She got two scenes and made a major impact. She wasn’t really even a frequent actress; I’m curious where they found her. It was good casting.
• The Joey Pants “That Guy” Award
Maybe it’s Jake Weber (Drew)? Like Forlani, there was just a general failure to launch for him. I’ve seen him in other things from that era, but as far as I can tell he’s disappeared. Anyway, I had to dig hard to come up with his name, and the other main cast members are easier to summon up. And the other supporting characters really are pretty unrecognizable for the most part.
• The “Ruffalo/Hanna/Rubinek/Partridge” Overacting Award
I considered picking Pitt here, the performance is a little weird at times - I don’t know what the fuck that face is about as he walks away from the kitchen with a peanut butter spoon early in the movie - but I generally just don’t think there was much overacting going on by anyone here.
• Casting What Ifs
I can’t find shit on this. I suppose as soon as you can get Brad Pitt and Anthony Hopkins to sign on for this, you don’t really need to consider others. Will be interested to hear if Blank Check has any more background on the casting.
• Half-Assed Internet Research
So, it’s not just Anthony Hopkins who played an old man here well before he hit a point of being truly old. Lois Kelly Miller had another 22 years in her after this movie. She made it to the ripe old age of 102 and just died in 2020.
• Probably Unanswerable Questions
So, yeah. This ending. She tells the man in coffee shop - whose name is almost certainly NOT Joe Black - “I wish you could have met my father.” Her father just went over the bridge. He might not be dead yet! They’re going to find him dead soon. I guess the unanswerable question is: what the fuck did she say to him to explain all of that? It feels like she’s going to have to roll with a real explanation of, “So, you see, you died and your body was inhabited by the angel of death for a minute. But I was really nice to him - I may have banged him a number of times, don’t worry about that - so he brought you back from the dead. Also, I don’t know what your name is, but everyone’s been calling you Joe Black. This whole thing gets a lot easier if you just go with that name from now on.”
Actually the last part can be reconciled by the IRS agent explanation in the telephonic board meeting. Hopkins did mention that Joe Black wasn’t his real name. So I guess he can just go by his own name. But he’s also definitely going to have to accept that he was the embodiment of death for a while, or this relationship is cooked. Let’s be real: even though death very nicely said, “You’ll always have what you had in the coffee shop,” I’m taking the under on 6.5 days for this relationship to be over.
• Sequel, Prequel, Limited Series, or All Black Remake
No.
• Apex Mountain
Forlani, yes. Lois Kelly Miller, yes. Jake Weber, yes? Everyone else, no. Marcia Gay Harden won an Oscar after this for Pollock. Jeffrey Tambor did Arrested Development. Pitt and Hopkins obviously have huge careers with peaks that existed at some other point. Martin Brest’s apex is probably Beverly Hills Cop.
• Who Won the Movie?
It could be Thomas Newman? I think even a hater of the movie would be likely to tip their cap to this score. Harden is also a decent choice since she got an Oscar role shortly after this. But when a movie bombs, it’s hard to claim a win.
• Picking Nits
I guess I already kind of did this with the ending. I would also note that Brad Pitt’s knowledge of human language just sort of comes and goes as a matter of convenience. He’s clueless about things he shouldn’t be, he’s totally conversant in other things, there isn’t a lot of internal logic.
Incidentally, is death just not happening in the world for a couple of weeks? I guess Pitt sort of covers that with the implication that he’s multitasking, but…meh.
• The “Den of Thieves Benihana” Award for Scene Stealing Location
Maybe it’s the whole pool area within the Parrish mansion? This shit looks incredible.
• The “Great Shot Gordo” Award for Most Cinematic Shot
• The Vincent Chase Award: Are We Sure This Character Is Actually Good at Their Job?
I’m not sure anything really applies here. Susan seems like a legitimately good doctor. Drew operates pretty shrewdly as a double agent, and probably would have gotten away with it but for all of Joe Black’s meddling. Quince is bad at this job, but the movie is clear about that. Allison seems bad at party planning, but the movie is also clear about that. Bill is putting principle over profit, but he’s also dying and suddenly concerned with legacy; it probably doesn’t say anything about how good he is at the job.
• The “Big Kahuna Burger” Award for Best Use of Food and Drink
Look: the peanut butter is all well and good, but when I watch this movie, my food inspiration is to eat a cold lamb sandwich.
• The “Butch’s Girlfriend” Award for the Weakest Link in the Film
It honestly kinda might be Brad Pitt? I mean I’m fine with his performance here, but one time I saw someone say that he’s giving a cheaper imitation performance of the Jeff Bridges Starman performance, and I’ve never fully gotten it out of my head. I do think Pitt got better at acting over time and that he wasn’t at the peak of his abilities yet here.
To be clear: I do not in any wish to replace him here. It all works for me. But he might be the closest thing to a shaky performance. He said as much himself in hindsight.
Brad Pitt was so embarrassed by his performance in movies ‘Cutting class’, ‘Meet Joe Black’ and ‘Seven Years in Tibet’, he’s apologised to film critics.
• The “Ron Burgundy Flute” Award for the Best Time for a Pee Break
Honestly, him discovering peanut butter for the first time - and taking a long time doing it - gives you a pretty good respite here.
• Is There a Better Title for this Movie?
Nah, this one’s good.
• The Steven A. Smith Hottest Take Award
It’s weird that this qualifies as a hot take, but: the movie’s length is justified and I wouldn’t want it to be shorter.
• The Teddy KGB Award for the Actor in a Completely Different Movie
At times, maybe Jeffrey Tambor? At least when he’s adding comic relief. But he shows good range as he vascillates between serious and non-serious.
• Just One Oscar
Thomas Newman.
• Best Double Feature
Honestly, it would be funny to make it Silence of the Lambs and see Hopkins play these two roles back to back. They’re both gentlemen in their own way, but one is just a bit more homicidal than the other.
• Best Race Horse Name from this Movie
Death and Taxes. (Because the horse would be a sure thing, you see.)
• The “Andy and Red – Zihuatanejo” Award for What Happens the Next Day?
Everyone’s mourning the loss of Bill. But seriously though, Susan and her new man are having some awkward conversations beyond that.
• The Coach Finstock Award for Best Life Lesson
Quince kinda nails it with this. Striving to keep the fewest secrets possible is a good thing. Much easier said than done sometimes, of course.
• The “Slow Ride” / “Kid Cudi – Pursuit of Happiness” Award for Best Needle Drop
Instrumental “What a Wonderful World” while Bill dances with his daughter for the last time is perfect and really helps heighten the emotion of the scene.
1 Like
As good as an episode of the podcast. Thanks for such robust commentary.
If not for him being named as an abuser and subsequently ousted from the show, I would have argued his apex wasn’t Arrested Development but instead was Transparent.
You’re so right about the ending lol. But the music is so good that it’s easy to slide into the credits.
The coffee diner scene was so good that I performed it with a classmate in 1999 for my high school theater class. And then the scene played so well between us that people suggested we should start dating. It wasn’t a good match, just the strength of the scene.
I guess I’m alone with this since even Brad Pitt apologized for his performance, but I actually like the performance the whole way through. It’s an effective mixture of him being aloof and unpracticed. When it’s time for him to be assertive, he falls back into his practiced role as a demigod, but when he needs to simply be human, he plays it like someone who has watched football for millennia but has never actually held a football. To me, the flips between being competent vs weirdly unpracticed fit well with the character and plot.
Yes. I can’t believe they made a two hour cut for airplanes. The director rightfully refused to put his name on it.
I don’t even necessarily disagree. I think him apologizing is probably him internalizing the lack of commercial success as kind of being his fault. I imagine it’s the sort of thing you might take personally as the lead. And since this is pre-Fight Club, I do think it’s clear enough that he was trying to find a way out of playing these pretty characters, and he doesn’t really like this period as much as the periods of his career that followed.
I wonder what got cut. (I mean, aside from the first peanut butter scene. That had to be among the cuts.)
1 Like
Wait, except nobody alive knows about this unless they have a personal relationship with someone on the board. Quince just delivered Drew into the room and then left; I don’t think he would have been on the call. So the remaining people probably aren’t even aware they’ve been given a cover story to go with his actual name and have it not be totally weird.
So yeah, the “Joe Black” name continuing is probably still an issue.
1 Like
A two-hour version was made to show on television and airline flights, by cutting most of the plotline involving Bill Parrish’s business. Since Director Martin Brest derided this edit of his film and disowned it, the director’s credit on this release used Hollywood pseudonym Alan Smithee.
I remember this since I am literally at the end of a rewatch, but the board is revealed to secretly be on the phone listening to Joe reveal he’s an IRS agent. They even tell him a very gracious thank you for his service.
The real question is what they would have done if Drew hadn’t agreed to take the deal of stepping down since Joe’s threat doesn’t really carry weight outside of him implying that he will torture Drew for thousands of years if he doesn’t step down.
The board may have already been swayed by the conversation before he agrees to take the deal. That part is unknowable though since they only jump in after he says he’s going to resign.
The undercover IRS agent explanation is a pretty good one that does effectively explain away this weird shit where Bill has this dude shadowing him everywhere all the time, so they might just buy Joe Black’s claim at face value. If they hear that convo, then Drew keeps gaslighting, then Bill passes away later in the night, they may be of a mood to reverse their prior decision to respect Bill’s wishes anyway.
1 Like