So… not relevant to my post at all. Got it.
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It’s directly relevant! Chomsky doesn’t ever have much of anything to say about Iran’s foreign policy, for the reasons laid out in those clips.
As a group, or as individual citizens?
You wondered if “the usual suspects” would talk about Iranian drones. Keeed told you why they won’t. Seems relevant to me, although he should have just posted what he wrote in his next post instead of some videos.
They’re responsible. Although Chomsky makes the point that average citizens in repressive societies probably have less responsibility than those in free societies, which seems sensible to me.
he was asking what chompsky said, thought why not go to the source.
There’s a lot more than Chomsky in this world, and the usual suspects here definitely aren’t all American or westernized.
Can you clarify whether by “usual suspects” you meant public figures like Chomsky or posters here influenced by people like Chomsky? I assumed the latter, but now I’m not so sure.
I don’t really understand the distinction here.
It’s better if you explain it to him like he’s five so that there is no confusion and arguing about what you meant. You can include the videos as evidence, but it’s better if you spoon-feed him the reasoning that you expect him to follow instead of assuming he can figure it out himself.
Anyways, posting Youtubes as a reply reminds me of libertarian bros posting hour-long videos. At least you posted a timestamp!
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It was meant as a description of a much wider set of people, and with the Chomsky comment I was trying to make it clear that I didn’t think he actually supported Iranian actions or whatever. My question was about why a Chomsky comment would get amplified so much, but I rarely if ever see something in reverse happen.
When the US does bad things, should US citizens feel individual guilt or collective guilt?
Chomsky would probably say individual guilt. Have you done all you can to stop what has happened? I certainly haven’t. I should feel guilty I haven’t taken sufficiently strong actions to stop US crimes. I do!
One is more general.
It’s like if Giannis has a great game, but the rest of his team and coaching were not good. You can say that Giannis didn’t deserve to lose while simultaneously saying that the Bucks definitely deserved to lose.
EDIT: Your post above pretty much answers my question.
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Wait, we’re not responsible for the actions of other people now?
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For psychological reasons, it is easier for US citizens to successfully advocate for stopping the crimes of foreign countries than it is to stop US crimes. So should pick the low hanging fruit first.
For example, it is good, actually, to arm people who are actively being genocided.
Lots of room for discussion and disagreement around this from reasonable people–as an example I somewhat disagree with Keeed–but the issue I’ve had is with people who I believe have shown inconsistencies between what citizens (and soldiers) from US and Russia are responsible for. Whatever somebody believes about culpability in these regards should be consistent, imo. American’s don’t get to hold themselves to different standards.
I don’t know what you mean. Is there a disconnect between what Chomsky says and something else I’ve said in the past?
this gives people way more agency than they actually have, particularly the disenfranchised.
there’s a fair argument to make that many here are in the donor class or brushing it and have a larger responsibility to act, but putting the actions of a govt on every individual means you’d actually support the russians = orcs deserving of slaughter take, or am I confused? not sure what point you’re making here
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I’ve come to agree with John Mearsheimer’s position on Ukraine: that the US and the West precipitated the crisis in Ukraine by trying to extend NATO and EU expansion right up to Russia’s borders, including particularly sensitive states to Russia like Ukraine and Georgia.
Sure seems like Putin is the one who took the actions to seize Crimea and promote insurrection in the Donbas, not to mention invade, and as such, he’s the one responsible, not the US or its citizens.
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